Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > eBay, LeBonCoin, Mercado Libre, Yahoo Japan, etc. > Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken(s) - Part 2 !!

Seiko7A38
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Here's a particularly nasty 7A38 Franken, listed late last night by one of the regular Filipino watch botchers time_essence. Although it's probably obvious what it is, to most savvy folk, it may catch out an unwary newbie, due to the apparently 'matching numbers'. The devious seller has described it as a 7A38-7250. Indeed, it appears to be fitted with the well (over) polished case-back off such. However the re-finished watch case, whose bezel, crown and pushers have been replated, is likely from a 7A38-7069 (rather than a two-tone 7A38-7060). The non-original two-tone oyster bracelet is clever, because it mimicks the p/n Z1162C you'd find on a 7A38-7069. But if you zoom in on the lugs, it looks like they're stamped Z1657.E. I can't identify it exactly (Seiko Oceania doesn't recognize the p/n Z1657C), but I suspect the end pieces (if not the rest of the bracelet) came off a two-tone 7S26-xxxx Seiko 5. 8)


The off-white arabic numbered 7250XS14 dial, hands (and presumably movement) is from a gold-tone 7A38-7280. The fact that you can read 7250 at the bottom of the dial in the seller's primary image is what I suspect may fool the odd newbie. I think I can safely say, off the top of my head, that it's very rare for any Seiko 7Axx dial part number prefix to match the case-back number suffix. 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302271452344



The description includes the usual half-truths we've come to expect .....

Just remember that (in their book) 'original' (or original Seiko) doesn't necessarily mean it's original to this particular model. 


April 3, 2017 at 8:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

I suppose I should give these two (pretty obvious) 7A38 Frankens a quick mention, while the eBay listings are still live, as there seems to be quite a bit of interest in them (at the time of writing both have 10 watchers), plus they're priced to sell at 49 Euros each. They were both listed yesterday evening by the Italian eBay seller braiwa. If you've come across his offerings before, then you'll know this seller frequently goes into overkill mode with photos. The most I've seen him upload - 12 eBay hosted images plus dozens more embedded in the description was a total of 50 ! :o For illustration purposes, I'm only going to bother posting 2 from each listing.


The first is a well worn 'head only'. The silvery-grey Tachymeter ring indicates the watch case comes from a two-tone 7A38-7280. The sandy beige 718L dial comes from a 7A38-7250 (interesting in the light of my comments on the previous Filipino Franken), but the case-back is stamped 7A38-7260. Obviously all quickly cobbled together to make a sale. The listing title says it all. :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152496383959




His second 7A38 Franken is rather more complete, in that it includes the correct original p/n B1627C bracelet. Like the previous one, it's based on a two-tone 7A38-728x watch case, but as this one comes with a white Tachymeter ring, probably originated as a white Roman numeral dialed 7A38-728A or -7289. The silvery white 710L dial could possibly have come from a stainless 7A38-7280, but as it's fitted with the case-back off a stainless 7A38-7190, which shares the same 710L dial, I'd suspect the latter.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152496381529



April 4, 2017 at 6:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Here's a truly horrible 7Axx Franken, which could equally belong in the Bottom of the 7Axx Barrel thread, because the UK seller who listed it at lunchtime today has captioned it as “Not working so for spares, repairs.”  But spares for what ?? :/ There's a bit of everything in this mess which someone has obviously cobbled together from whatever they had left over in their bits box ! 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292088283304



Nice looking chronograph watch that is in need of some attention. Sold as spares and repairs.


So where shall we start ? Well the reason I chose to post it in the 7A38 Frankens thread, is that's where the watch case is from.

It's possibly from a 7A38-7190 or 7A38-7270 / 727A - probably once a two-tone that has been polished (particularly the bezel).

Indeed, the silvery-grey Tachymeter ring and residual traces of gold plating would tend to point towards that.

The shallow crown is definitely not original and the 4 o'clock pusher sticks out way too far.

The champagne coloured dial, with the date @ 12 is obviously from a gold-tone 7A34-7019.

Presumably the movement is a 7A34A, but the back-plate is printed Shimauchi V906 indicating it came from a Yema N8 !! :o

I can't quite place the blackened hour and minute hands, but their rounded ends make me think they might be 7A38-6109.

The bracelet is a p/n B423 off a much earlier Seiko and going by the polished clasp, it may once have been gold plated.

All topped off with a badly worn / butchered case-back off a gold-tone 7A28-7020 - and hence the listing title. :roll:

Did I miss anything ? :P


April 17, 2017 at 2:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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I must admit that I'm sometimes guilty of not following up by posting the results of eBay listings for 7A38 Frankens that I flag up in this thread. It's simply down to a lack of time. I hadn't previously bothered with that horrible 7A38-7069 / 7A38-7280 Franken offered by Filipino watch-botcher time_essence, which I'd posted at the top of this page, at the beginning of April.

Well here it is, albeit somewhat belatedly: it sold for $70 after 21 bids.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302271452344


There's some irony to what I'd written in my previous post:

it's probably obvious what it is, to most savvy folk, it may catch out an unwary newbie, due to the apparently 'matching numbers'.

Because the winning bidder certainly has PLENTY of experience of buying such watches from Filipino eBay sellers - for resale.

Listed in the early hours of this morning by profiteering US eBay re-seller total_time22 was this, the very same Franken 7A38 ....


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382053996725


I'm only bothering to upload the seller's primary image (of 12 photos) as there's no doubt it's the exact same Franken 7A38:




FOR AUCTION, A RARE VINTAGE SEIKO MEN'S QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH, A MODEL 7A38-7250 IN VERY GOOD CONDITION OVERALL. THE WATCH FEATURES THE ORIGINAL WHITE DIAL THAT IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION WITH VERY LITTLE NOTICEABLE STAIN OR FADE. THE DAY-DATE AT 3 O'CLOCK IS SET WITH QUICKSET VIA THE CROWN, AND WORKS PERFECTLY. THE DAY LANGUAGE IS IN ENGLISH OR SPANISH. THE ORIGINAL GLASS CRYSTAL IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION WITHOUT ANY SCRATCHES. THE ORIGINAL BLACK AND GOLD HANDS ARE IN VERY GOOD CONDITION. THE ORIGINAL STAINLESS STEEL CASE IS UNTOUCHED AND IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION WITH A COUPE LIGHT SCRATCHES. THE ORIGINAL GOLD CROWN AND PUSHERS ARE IN VERY GOOD CONDITION. THE ORIGINAL STAINLESS STEEL BACK PLATE IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION WITH A FEW SMALL SCRATCHES AND ALL MARKINGS ARE CLEAR AND COMPLETE. THE ORIGINAL SEIKO/SQ STAINLESS STEEL & GOLD BRACELET IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION AND WILL FIT UP TO A 7.5" WRIST. THE WATCH WAS SERVICED JUST 5 WEEKS AGO, AND IS RUNNING VERY WELL. THE 7A38 VINTAGE QUARTZ MOVEMENT IS RUNNING STRONG AND VERY ACCURATELY. CHRONOGRAPH HANDS RETURN TO ZERO, AND ALL FUNCTIONS ARE CORRECT. THE WATCH WAS MANUFACTURED IN SETEMBER OF 1986. THIS IS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF A SEIKO VINTAGE QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH IN NICE SHAPE, EVERY COLLECTOR OF VINTAGE WATCHES SHOULD HAVE ONE! IT IS A MEN'S LARGE SIZED WATCH (38 mm not including crown X 43 mm lug to lug). PLEASE EMAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU FOR LOOKING!! Check out my other items! Be sure to add me to your favorites list!


I count the word ORIGINAL deliberately mis-used 7 times in the description. There is very little that is truly original in this watch.

Now deceptively described by a supposedly 'reputable' seller and priced @ $150, it's even more a case of Caveat Emptor ! 


April 23, 2017 at 3:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

The UK eBay auction for that horrible non-working 7A38 / 7A34 Franken fitted with a 7A28 case-back (and worse besides) ended a few minutes ago, selling for £40 after 11 bids. The 6 bidders all had reasonably high feedback numbers, so presumably knew what they were bidding on - and wanted it for break up for spares. Hopefully that'll be the last we see of it. A real horror of a Franken.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292088283304


April 24, 2017 at 7:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Earlier in the week, I'd noticed that US eBay re-seller total_time22 had begun to gradually reduce the Buy-it-Now price of his completely non-original ex-Philippines Franken. It found a 'mug punter' buyer @ $120 in the early hours of this morning.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382053996725


April 30, 2017 at 4:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Seiko7A38 at February 18, 2017 at 8:20 AM

The above 7A38 Franken, listed on eBay Germany appears to have sold very quicky, later the same day - quite incredibly, for the full 295 Euros asking price too, as far as I can tell. 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252767629726


And they say there's one born every minute. :roll: Makes me wonder why I bother, sometimes. 



Well perhaps it didn't - or maybe the buyer came to their senses and returned it, because it's back again, re-listed.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252912059795


My full dissertation on this grossly over-priced 7A38 Franken is on the previous page, for anybody who might care to read it.


May 7, 2017 at 5:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Going through my eBay watching page, I noticed the above German eBay re-listing for a 7A38 Franken ended yesterday morning:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252912059795



Thankfully, not sold for the 295 Euros asking, price - but as eBay's purchase history reveals, for a rather lower offer of 125 Euros.

May 16, 2017 at 8:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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It's always a bit awkward to know what to say ....

When someone posts on another forum that they'd just bought the very same Franken - and it's their first Seiko 7A38. :/


http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japanese-watch-discussion-forum/277305-7a38-refurbishing-hints-required.html



May 16, 2017 at 12:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

This deceptively attractive Franken 7A38 Diver was listed yesterday evening by a UK seller with an opening bid price of £40. It's almost guaranteed to catch out an unwary punter (or two) and will probably fetch a pretty penny in 7 days time. I took the screen print below yesterday evening, but the bidding is already at £112 by this morning. The seller has titled the listing as a 7A38-7080 Speedmaster - and going by the seller's 3 photos, that's how it may well appear to the uninitiated.


Here's how it breaks down: The stainless watch case is from the sister 7A38-7070 model. It's been fitted with the all-black 709L dial from the black chrome 7A38-7080 and that donor watch's case-back. The yellow sweep hand is probably from the 7A38-7080, but has faded from the original orange to yellow. The non-standard red constant seconds hand could be from a number of other models, possibly even a 7A28. The bezel inlay is a Yobokies repro' item, which has been fitted recently (of more anon). The SPEEDMASTER logo'd clasp would point to the bracelet being a Seiko p/n AA58A off a JDM 7A28-7040 (unfortunately you can't see the stampings in the seller's last photo, to confirm this).


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172748110490



Seiko 7a38-7080 Speedmaster. April 1984? Purchased as job lot from a retired watch maker. It looks really good for its age. SS bracelet doesn't seem to be re-sized, it's big for my 7.5 inch wrist.Rotating bezel ring has a nice clicking action. U was told at the time that watch was cleaned up and serviced and a fresh battery installed. What you see is exactly what you are going to get. Thanks for looking.


This watch has been mentioned in passing on the forum fairly recently, as part of a job lot pairing (with a 7A38-6020). I didn't write anything specifically about it at the time. Here's a couple of extracts from my posts in the 7A38-6020 Model Specific thread:


Originally posted by myself on April 18, 2017 at 9:03 AM:


An unusual job lot pairing of modded 7A38 'Diver's appeared listed on eBay UK yesterday evening. As the 7A38-6020 has already featured in this thread, four years ago, halfway down the first page, I've opted to post about it here.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272634840360



Two Seiko 7A38 model watches. Very good condition.

On 17-Apr-17 at 21:23:36 BST, seller added the following information:

We've been bombarded with questions about 'buy now' but we would rather just let the auction run unless a very good offer is received. Note these watches are pretty old now (mid 80's possibly) and therefore there are marks with general wear and the pushers are a bit stiff on the one with the black bezel so please don't expect new condition. Both work fine and the one with the orange dials had a new battery fitted only a few months ago. All in all excellent quality Seiko vintages watches.... all metal and no plastic.


Sad to admit, but I instantly recognized the 7A38-6020, because it's fitted with the wrong p/n Z1148S bracelet off a 7A38-7050 - and has been since I first wrote about it back in January 2013 on the first page of this thread (and also in parallel in the 'Wrong Bracelet' eBay thread). If you're in any doubt that it's the same watch, check out that little ding on the lower R.H. lug box. ;)


I can't be bothered to write separately in another thread about the other watch, even though we now have a 7A38-7070 model specific thread. This watch is effectively a Franken, fitted with the all-black 709L dial out of a 7A38-7080. Most of the hands are original apart from the obvious red constant seconds hand. The bracelet is standard looking, apart from the Speedmaster logo'd clasp, so it's presumably off a JDM 7A28-7040.


Note the seller's lengthy amendment to their original very brief description. To my mind, if they truly wanted to get the best prices for those watches by auction, then they might have done so by listing them separately and making some attempt at describing them properly. I suspect they're just fishing for offers, so I won't be unduly surprised if the listing is ended early.


Originally posted by myself on May 9, 2017 at 12:29 PM:


The above re-listed auction for a job lot pair of 7A38 Divers, including a stainless 7A38-6020, fitted with an incorrect p/n Z1148S bracelet off a 7A38-7050, ended a couple of minutes ago, selling for £261 after 15 bids. Whereas neither watch was 'correct', I can't help thinking that they might have achieved rather better prices if the seller had bothered to list them individually. :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272650360772


Judging by the previous seller's photos, it's obviously the same 7A38 Franken, but now fitted with a Yobokies repro' bezel insert.


June 26, 2017 at 4:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Here's a particularly horrible 7A38 Franken listed yesterday evening by a Spanish eBay seller - as supposedly totally original. 

It should be pretty obvious to most regular readers what it comprises, but for the benefit of the newbies, I'll spell it out.

The badly worn watch case, bracelet and white Tachymeter ring are from a stainless 7A38-7280.

The water-damaged (smudged printing) 7120 dial (and presumably movement) is from a Titanium 7A38-7130 - as is the case-back.

The gold plated crown also appears to have been donated by the Ti 7A38-7130.

As there's been no attempt made at polishing this turd, I suspect it was probably nailed together in 5 minutes or less. 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122567983496



Reloj de pulsera para caballero de la casa SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH TITANIUM SPORTS 100 VINTAGE QUARTZ 7A38-7130 TODO ORIGINAL

DIÁMETRO: 37,26


Funciona a la perfección con marcas de uso y lo vendo tal como se ve en fotos y cualquier pregunta no dudes de preguntar antes de pujar no aceptó ningún voto negativo, por eso hay que preguntar Antes de pujar.Esto es todo y el pago mediante en Paypal o cuenta bancaria. Suerte en la puja.


I think this calls for another re-post ....



June 28, 2017 at 6:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Well lots of people didn't (run away). :roll: Indeed the winning bidder, who paid 68.50 Euros for that piece of Franken junk, seemed determined to win it, placing 13 of the 38 bids. The mind truly boggles. I sometimes wonder why I bother.  


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122567983496

July 2, 2017 at 2:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

On the other hand, I wasn't unduly surprised by the price achieved by the 7A38-7070 / -7080 Franken 'Diver'. It had already been bid to £265 earlier in the week, after a bit of a slugging match and that's how it ended a few moments ago, with 31 bids placed. Assuming this is the same watch from that job lot pairing in April, it's sale singly just exceeded that of the job lot pair (£261).


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172748110490


July 2, 2017 at 2:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Nor was I particularly surprised to see it re-listed, yesterday evening. :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172767838463



The re-listing is almost exactly the same, with the same 3 deceptively poor quality photos.

The only difference being a small addition to the description: Serious bidders only please.

Seriously ?? 

July 7, 2017 at 5:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Last time I'd looked at that eBay listing on Friday afternoon, it had already been bid to £195 (as shown in the cancelled bid history).

The seller ended the listing early, on Friday evening, premumably in response to a higher offer made outside eBay. :/


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172767838463



July 9, 2017 at 3:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

This fairly obvious 7A38 Franken was listed yesterday evening by Filipino eBay seller guilloche_enterprises (previously better known as apol_of_your_eyes). Although there's possibly more to it than meets the eye. :P It was possibly once an all stainless 7A38-7020 that has been fitted with the 710L dial / movement from either a two-tone 7A38-7190 or 7A38-7280. If that's the case (pun intended), it's also possibly been fitted with the silver Tachymeter ring from that other donor (which necessitates removing the bezel). Unfortunately Apol and his wrecking crew have re-fitted the bezel approx. 20 degrees out of whack. The flats of the bezel should of course be aligned with the edges of the watch case  :roll:


I say 'possibly' (twice), because if you look at the photo of the case-back, it states 7A38-7020 ST. STEEL SGP BEZEL - which indicates a two-tone 7A38-7020, rather than an all stainless one. So perhaps the bezel (pushers and crown) have been stripped of their gold plating. If that's the case, then the silver Tachymeter ring could be original to the (two-tone) 7A38-7020. Your guess is as good as mine. :/


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302385443762


There are some 19 images embedded in the description. I really don't see the point in uploading more than a couple ....




It's clear from the above statement that Apol knows this watch is a 'wrong un'. Otherwise where did he get the info from ?



If you needed any more reasons to avoid this botched-up mess, just take a look at his two photos of the movement:



In the words of the Bard ....



July 17, 2017 at 10:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

Late yesterday evening, I spotted this truly horrible 7Axx Franken listed on Yahoo Japan auctions. It comprises the watch case and bracelet of a JDM 7A48-7000 that has been fitted with the Tachymeter ring, dial / movement and case-back from a European export gold-tone 7A38-7060. In fairness to the seller, he does hint at its bastard parentage in his description and inadvertently acknowledges that it is a piece of  'Junk'. :lol: Note also the discoloured lume on the hands and indices; possible evidence of a previous battery leak, meaning the movement might not be exactly pristine either. The opening bid price is 3,000 Yen (probably all it's worth in real terms) with the laughable option to Buy-it-Now for 25,000 Yen, which definitely falls into 'Dream On' territory. :roll:




http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o202373637




Google translates the Japanese seller's description as follows:


Seiko 7A38-7060 chronograph speed master battery rare rare secondhand use Seiko chrono.

Collection adjustment therefore exhibited.

The battery is exhausted.

It seems to be replaced with a case and a band of 7 A 48.

Because it is second - hand, there are scratches etc associated with use.

I would be pleased if you acknowledge it based on the above.

Those who are seeking beautiful goods and finished goods should refrain from bidding you like thank you.

Moreover, I need your help by junk treatment without a no claim, returned goods.

Please contact me after dealing successfully in deal Navi (beta version). Bidding from people with bad evaluations, those with anxiety about past transactions are canceled without prior notice.

Since enclosure is not possible, I need your help well.

Shipping will be only letter pack light 360. Packing will be simple with bubble wrap.Shipping will be from Fukuoka prefecture.

When there is no connection within 24 hours after it makes a successful bid, I will cancel the successful bid by "deletion of successful bidder convenience". Also, please make payment and easy settlement procedure within 3 days (excluding weekends and public holidays) from the bid date. Even if payment and settlement procedures are not made within 3 days (except Saturdays, Sundays and holidays), the cancellation of the successful bid by "Delete of successful bidder convenience".

Although I am sorry truly, please bid it only for those who can acknowledge it.

Those who are seeking beautiful goods and finished goods should refrain from bidding you like thank you.

Moreover, I need your help by junk treatment without a no claim, returned goods.


September 22, 2017 at 4:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9333

I thought for a moment that I was about to report another instance of Déjà Vu. Turns out to be a variation on the same theme. This very similary horrible 7A48 / 7A38 Franken was listed last night by a US eBay seller. This one comprises the case and bracelet from an export model 7A48-7000 (or -7009) fitted with the Tachymeter ring, dial, hands / movement and case-back from a 7A38-7069.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253234799152



Rare Seiko 7A38-7069 Quartz Chronograph

Very nice clean condition.

All functions working with nice crisp pusher operation and keeping excellent time.

Metal strap is tight and comes with extra links.

Nice crystal.

I had a new Renata high quality battery inserted into this watch.

Please see the pictures.

The Seiko 7A38 is part of the family of world's first quartz chronographs. It has a day & date complication. The simpler 7A28 does not have the day and the somewhat different 7A48 replaces the day wheel with a moon phase complication. These watches are built in the tradition of automatic chronographs in all brass with jeweled bearings. They are known as one of the most robust and best performing quartz movements, even more than 30 years after introduction.

Please note that these are vintage watches. Many have had several owners and their history may not be traceable. I cannot guarantee water tightness. Please be mindful of the age of the watch.


There's some irony in the seller's bnllsh!t description. :roll:


October 31, 2017 at 4:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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