Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > eBay, LeBonCoin, Mercado Libre, Yahoo Japan, etc. > Bad examples of re-finishing seen on eBay - Caveat Emptor

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

You've got to hand it to some of the Filipino watch-botchers - a few of them have got case and bracelet re-finishing off to a fine art.

There's also an eBay seller in Korea, who turns out some super work, which is sometimes hard to tell from the original factory finish.

Then there are the others, who, when you see their pathetic efforts, you think to yourself 'oh why didn't they just leave it alone'. :roll:


Some of these re-works may actually be 'home-brewed', in Germany, USA or the UK (rather than imported from the Philippines).

I'm not sure who might be responsible for this mess. :o


Listed yesterday on eBay in the States by 'Total_Time22':

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330717292309

SEIKO VERY RARE VINTAGE QUARTZ CHRONO, 7A38-7070, DIVER, ORIG, EXCELLENT

(note the last two words in the title)



On the face of it, a well-used watch, with a corroded bezel insert, and some possible evidence of moisture ingress (dial batons and hand lume), indicating that it might actually have been used for swimming or diving (heaven forbid), at some point in its life. 


The seller, given his due, is not trying to hide anything in his photos or description:

THE ORIGINAL SOLID STAINLESS STEEL CASE APPEARS LIGHTLY BUFFED, AND IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION ....


But 'lightly' ?? :o


I've been struggling to find a couple of side views of an unmolested 7A38-7070 watch case for comparison.

These are the best I can do, from an eBay Listing in December 2009 (the watch is on a NATO, but that's academic):



April 15, 2012 at 10:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

You've got to hand it to some of the Filipino watch-botchers - a few of them have got case and bracelet re-finishing off to a fine art.


Well, with a first line like that, this thread seemed the best one to add this latest example of Filipino 7A38 watch botching on to !


Listed earlier this evening by 'Apol_of_your_eyes', was this 7A38-6020:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110915674766

RARE SEIKO SPORTS 100 QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH DAY/DATE MEN'S WATCH 7A38-6020



 

YOU ARE BIDDING ON A RARE AND COLLECTIBLE SEIKO SPORTS 100 QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH DAY/DATE MEN'S WATCH IN STAINLESS STEEL CASE.. BLACK DIAL.. 7A38-6020

 

COMES WITH THE SEIKO STAINLESS STEEL BRACELET, READY TO WEAR!

ACTUAL PHOTOS OF THE WATCH ARE PROVIDED.

 

PRE-OWNED AND RARE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S WATCH 7A38-6020

STAINLESS STEEL CASE MEASURING APPROXIMATELY 42MMX46MM, WITHOUT CROWN AND FROM LUG TO LUG

BLACK DIAL WITH PATINA ORIGINAL HANDS WITH RED SECONDS, PATINA

STAINLESS STEEL CROWN AND PUSHERS QUICKSET DAY/DATE AT 3 O'CLOCK

ORIGINAL BUFFED CRYSTAL STAINLESS STEEL BI-DIRECTIONAL ROTATING BEZEL WITH ORIGINAL INSERT, CLICKS!

SEIKO 7A38 QUARTZ MOVEMENT, KEEPS CORRECT TIME; CHRONOGRAPH FUNCTIONS CORRECTLY, STARTS/STOPS/RESETS

STAINLESS STEEL BACK CASE 7A38-6020 SERIAL NO. 405743 (OCTOBER 1984)

SEIKO SQ STAINLESS STEEL BRACELET, WILL FIT A 6.5 INCH WRIST APPROX...

NO BOX/PAPERS BUT GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC OR YOUR MONEY BACK!

July 13, 2012 at 4:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

There are 16 photos in total, and to the uninitiated, the watch probably doesn't look too bad.

Except that this isn't a stainless 7A38-6020 (at all), but the dark brown / black chromed version, which has been stripped !!! 

Look closely at this photo of the case-back and you'll see it's stamped: BASE METAL ST. STEEL BACK




Here's what it originally would have looked like:



Note the dial is actually a dark metallic brown, rather than black, too. Perhaps that's what Apol meant by 'patina'. :roll:

July 13, 2012 at 4:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

In hindsight, perhaps I chose to flag that 7A38-6020 in the wrong thread - or at least one with an unsuitable topic title.

Because despite the numerous google searches on 7A38-6020 which bought visitors to the forum over the last week ....

Stripped (and hence non-original) on otherwise - it still made a strong finish at $192.50 (approx. £123.64) after 19 bids.

See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=110915674766

July 18, 2012 at 1:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jota
Member
Posts: 41

Honestly, I do find it difficult at times, when new info is added to existing threads. I had not seen this one, and despite my doubts about the seller and his description, I had a sudden attack on my mobile phone and became one of those bidding on it. Glad now I didn't win it.

Probably a newby problem, but I am also having some difficulties establishing what the right price points for the different models should be. As opposed to, for example, Seiko mechanical chronos, or military watches, where according to condition, originality, etc, final prices tend to be more or less foreseeable, I have the sense that 7As auctions are tending to behave quite in a random fashion.


In fact, you guys may be able to help me out: what would a reasonable price for a 6020 or 7140 in decent original condition be? And where? They seem to be scarce, therefore hard for me to have any reference. While you can see plenty of, let's say 6139 Pogues and, with some research find out what an aftermaket version, what an unmolested or a NOS can cost, it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to get a pattern with the 7As.

All the best, and thanks for the heads up anyway, Paul.

July 19, 2012 at 5:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

Sorry, Julio. It's sometimes awkward (as it was on this particular occasion) to know which thread (if any) to add watches like these onto. Perhaps I should have just stuck with the one (very long) thread format - 'The Heads Up on yet another 7Axx Franken', like we had on RLT. But then I didn't want to be accused of 'crying wolf' all the time, so I'd already started 2 more similarly-themed threads on here: one for 7Axx's fitted with (undisclosed) incorrect bracelets, and another for watches that were fitted with the wrong case-backs, etc..


Stripping of SGP gold plating or black (with grey and brown PVD) chrome plating is another common 'bodge', which (as in this case) doesn't necessarily turn the watch into an outright franken, per se - it just makes it non-original. I guess I could start a new topic for every such watch, but very soon this section would be overflowing with separate short topics. It's already pretty busy in here. :roll:


Yes Julio, I did notice your eBay ID amongst the bidding history. ;) Oddly enough, the winning bidder, who sniped it in the last couple of seconds, was US collector Mike Mounce. Why he went for it, I cannot begin to fathom. Presumably he knew what he was bidding on. Strange thing is, Mike already has a perfectly good (brown) black chrome coated 7A38-6020 in his collection (3rd from right in photo):




I clearly need to finish off the two 7A38-6020 threads which I've already started in the 7A38-xxxx Model Specific section, a bit pronto.

They will include any selling prices that I've recorded over the last couple of years.

July 19, 2012 at 6:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jota
Member
Posts: 41

Thanks a lot for the thorough response, Paul. I would not have thought there would be some reknowned collector fighting for it. You guys are insatiable!! Leave something for the poor ones, please!!! Anyway, I would have been more upset had it been a 7140. Have a nice weekend

July 20, 2012 at 4:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

nova
Member
Posts: 109

JAPAN TITANIUM VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH SPORTS 100M QUARTZ MEN WATCH





with nice coloured hands :lol:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/JAPAN-TITANIUM-VINTAGE-SEIKO-7A38-CHRONOGRAPH-SPORTS-100M-QUARTZ-MEN-WATCH-/271023268038

July 24, 2012 at 12:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

That's pretty horrible, Andre !! 


Apart from the painted hands (wrong sweep hand) and batons someone's managed to fit a different minute? ring in there, too.


Here's how a Ti 7A38-7130 should look:



July 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

And the first bidder is a Zero-Feedback Newbie !! 


http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=271023268038

July 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

Seiko7A38 at July 18, 2012 at 1:44 PM

In hindsight, perhaps I chose to flag that 7A38-6020 in the wrong thread - or at least one with an unsuitable topic title.

Because despite the numerous google searches on 7A38-6020 which bought visitors to the forum over the last week ....

Stripped (and hence non-original) on otherwise - it still made a strong finish at $192.50 (approx. £123.64) after 19 bids.

See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=110915674766


Well, just to add to the confusion (there's a proper place for everything) :P .... now see this thread:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7943243-stripped-7a38-6020-ex-ebay-now-offered-on-scwf-trading-post


July 30, 2012 at 4:56 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

I probably should have written something about this one a week ago, when I first saw it appear on eBay, last Sunday evening.

Couldn't be arsed at the time, pressure of work and all that.   Plus I was secretly hoping somebody else might point it out. 

Yet another typical example of the Filipino watch-botcher's art - and as per usual over-polished to within an inch of its life. 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221149422688

VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38-7060 MEN'S CHRONOGRAPH QUARTZ WATCH




As is normal with this seller, the description is full of half truths and liberal (mis)use of the word 'Original'.



This thing is about as original as Pamela Anderson's t!tt!es ! :o 


But the reason I was hoping someone else might point it out, is that this typical example of Filipino eBay 7Axx crap is a bit special ....



For something that it's missing ....



And I'm not talking about several microns of Seiko's original gold plating, missing from all visible areas of the watch case ....



There's another clue given in the description - DAY / DATE: English and Kanji wheel (not seen in the photos).


Notice the case-back stampings ? :| Thankfully they haven't been completely obliterated by polishing. :roll:




Twenty odd years ago, this watch would have left an offshore Seiko manufacturing plant looking something like this:



It is (or what's left of) a rare Made in Korea version of the gold-tone 7A38-7060, as discussed in this thread in another forum section:


http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7358624-an-otherwise-average-looking-gold-tone-7a38-7060-or-is-it-


November 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

Maybe this isn't the correct thread to post this in. Perhaps it properly belongs in the 'Craziest' or 'Opportunist' prices thread, but ....

Is it my eyes, or has someone tried (failing badly) to recreate the original silver anodized finish of this 7A38-701A by air-brushing it ?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//281033896951



Whether it's just poor photography (which would be unusual for this Italian eBay seller), or an unfortunate trick of the light, but ....

It just looks too dark overall to me.  The watch has clearly also suffered from moisture ingress or battery leakage in the past.

You only need to look at the state of the dial batons. One best avoided - even at a fraction of the would-be seller's asking price. 


  No. I don't think I'm wrong about this one. 8)

Definitely an example of 

In the above photo, you can see evidence of both masking and over-spray on the case-back and edges of the bracelet links.


December 4, 2012 at 12:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

Apparently the seller has already declined an (over-generous) offer of $200.  Fortunately for the potential buyer, I'd say ! 

December 5, 2012 at 7:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

nova
Member
Posts: 109

The batons at 12, 1 and 2 should be also sprayed :lol:

December 5, 2012 at 10:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

Prolific Filipino arch-watch-botcher Ramon 'Badingski' Bangit  has already been mentioned in a number of threads in this section. 

The guy continuously cobbles together horrible messes from 7A38's which most sane people would probably consider beyond hope.

Lately he seemed to be getting a little better in some of his efforts at re-plating bezels and cases, but then I saw that abortion calling itself a gold-tone 7A38-7190, which he listed on eBay last week - and if I had ever written that anywhere - consider it retracted ! 


Anyway, that's wasn't what I was originally planning to write about here, but seeing as I've mentioned it:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300827267801

SEIKO 7A38-7190 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH GOLDPLATED QUARTZ MENS DRESSWATCH




Scabby, or what ? 

Yes, he does clearly state in his description: CASE : Original ,GOLDPLATED CASE,NEWLY ELECTROPLATED,

But what he fails to say is that he obviously couldn't be bothered to prepare the surfaces before he dunked it in the G-P solution. :roll:


December 7, 2012 at 7:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

It's the two-tone 7A38-7280 which he listed on eBay overnight, which prompted me to write something more:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271116991240

RARE-SEIKO-7A38-7280-DAYDATE-CHRONOGRAPH-18KGP-STAINLESS-STEEL-QUARTZ-MENSWATCH



I'm not sure where to begin to describe this latest sorry mess masquerading as a 7A38. :(

Apart from the allegedly 'lightly polished' bezel and the obviously (badly) re-plated crown and pushers - there's the bracelet he's fitted.

Not only is it badly stretched in places, and although Badingski describes it as 'original', it's no longer the correct original version of the B1627.E bracelet for a two-tone 7A38-7280. The central links should be gold plated. Whether he's just fitted a p/n B1627S bracelet off another all-stainless 7A38-7280, or chemically stripped the remaining gold plating from the original B1627C bracelet I cannot say. :/

December 7, 2012 at 7:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

Checking back through my 7A38-7280 photo folder (it'd not difficult to recognise his style of photography / crumpled backgrounds) ....

Badingski has knocked out (at least) a couple of 7A38-7280 Two-Tones similarly completely / partially stripped of their plating before.

This one in March 2010:



and this (in rather better condition, but with polished stainless centre link sections) in January 2011:



In fact, in the same folder, I have plenty more examples of other versions of 7A28-728x's which Badingski has 'worked on'. 


Although, grant you - it's hardly a fair comparison, this is how a two-tone silver-grey dialed 7A38-7280 case and bracelet should look:


December 7, 2012 at 8:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 8892

Seiko7A38 at December 7, 2012 at 7:59 AM

It's the two-tone 7A38-7280 which he listed on eBay overnight, which prompted me to write something more:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271116991240

RARE-SEIKO-7A38-7280-DAYDATE-CHRONOGRAPH-18KGP-STAINLESS-STEEL-QUARTZ-MENSWATCH



I'm not sure where to begin to describe this latest sorry mess masquerading as a 7A38. :(

Apart from the allegedly 'lightly polished' bezel and the obviously (badly) re-plated crown and pushers - there's the bracelet he's fitted.

Not only is it badly stretched in places, and although Badingski describes it as 'original', it's no longer the correct original version of the B1627.E bracelet for a two-tone 7A38-7280. The central links should be gold plated. Whether he's just fitted a p/n B1627S bracelet off another all-stainless 7A38-7280, or chemically stripped the remaining gold plating from the original B1627C bracelet I cannot say. :/


It seems we may have yet another hopeful would-be profiteering eBay re-seller to keep tabs on. :/

Badingski's scabby two-tone 7A38-7280 sold on 14th December 2012 for $76 (approx. £47) after 8 bids - about what I'd expected:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271116991240



What is presumably exactly the same watch (re-using four of Badingski's listing photos) re-appeared on eBay in Spain this morning:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281046779426



.... with a slightly optimistic Buy it-Now price of  £249 !!!   

January 4, 2013 at 6:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 8892

I guess it had to come eventually. How about this partially stripped Gangnam Style 8) 7A28-7000 Aliens listed by a Korean seller ? :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390531654417


January 24, 2013 at 3:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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