Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

.... and I'm not referring to Arpad. 

I guess I've been fortunate to have amassed an eclectic all-encompassing collection of Orient J39 and Puma Y19 '7A38's over the last three years. They may not all be in pristine condition; some far from it, but none were exactly expensive - particularly when compared to equivalent Seiko 7A38's of equal 'rarity factor'. I don't even really mind that much if there are one or two 'gaps' in my collection. 

But what does bug the hell out of me is not knowing what I might be missing. 

Some of you may have seen my little Orient / Puma 'knowledge database' Excel spreadsheet, which I included in another thread:

Most of the information included in the spreadsheet has been gained by my actually owning the watches.

Some of it was verified when I discovered the Boley.de's case parts database. IIRC, at the time I found this table, back in May 2012 ....

http://www.boley.de/en/case-parts/orient?search=y19

.... I didn't yet own my Y19301-70 beater, so it helped me to identify it when I first saw one listed on eBay Germany, in the same month:

It also presented me with something of an enigma - a niggling gap in my 'knowledge database'.

I already knew what the other Puma Y19 variants looked like (indeed owned doubles of one). But what the heck was the Y19904-50 ??

Even today, if you google 'Puma Y19904-50', the only meaningful result you'll find is still just the Boley.de case parts database search.

But of course, we already know of the Orient J3920 / Puma / JEPIC Corp. Y19 relationship, good as proven by my findings here:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7997030-the-tacit-seiko-7a38-orient-j3920-puma-jepic-y19-connection

Earlier this evening, I just happened to google 'Orient J3920' (as you do) - and for once found a new result on the second page:

Hungarian though - it might as well all be Greek to me. But I thought I'd have a quick look, as it was a thread about Japanese watches. 

Currently halfway down the first page is this post by 'steve31': http://forum.index.hu/Article/viewArticle?a=123178326&t=9198082

Most of the images look fairly familiar (including the wrist shot of my Orient J39909-80) and were probably borrowed from this site ....

Apart from these three:

So there you have it - that's how a Puma Y19904-50 looks. No suprises really - quite like a dressy Orient J39. It's just nice to know. 

Scrolling (backwards) through that thread on forum.index.hu; it's a L-O-N-G thread, currently 99 pages long, and reads back to front,

.... I found this post (currently) on page 22: http://forum.index.hu/Article/viewArticle?a=117654956&t=9198082

It would appear that Puma Y19904-50 (or one very similar to it) was listed on Hungary's equivalent of eBay, Vatera.hu in April 2012:

Needless to say, the actual listing has long since dropped off history, but at least someone thought to save the image. 

That'll teach me, posting late at night, slightly under the influence. I seem to have missed the absolutely bl**dy obvious. 

Google didn't translate Steve's post particularly well (that's my excuse  ) but it was clear he'd made the Orient / JEPIC connection.

Looking more closely at his photo of the movement in his Puma Y19904-50, in the broad light of day, the reason becomes apparent:

It isn't Stamped JEPIC CORP. and Y19, as one would expect (please excuse the horrible photo below - it's one I had prepared earlier):

Instead, his Puma Y19904-50's movement is stamped J3920 above the battery on the right hand side, where I'd expect to see Y19.

I strongly suspect this isn't a manufacturing deviation by Orient Watch Co. / JEPIC CORP., but that he's swapped the movement.

Specifically, from this tired-looking Orient J39701-70 which was listed on Vatera.hu back in July last year:

Apart from the broken finger tension spring, some of the tarnish marks on the movement's back-plates are a perfect match.

My apologies to Steve. 

Seems it was not actually he himself who had swapped over the movements bewteen the Orient J39701-70 and this Puma Y19904-50.

See his post reply on forum.index.hu: http://forum.index.hu/Article/viewArticle?a=123565879&t=9198082

After I read your description I noticed that in my watch the movement probably was changed.

The seller wasn't honest when asked for about the watch.

Seiko7A38 at January 27, 2013 at 5:47 AM

My apologies to Steve. 

Seems it was not actually he himself who had swapped over the movements bewteen the Orient J39701-70 and this Puma Y19904-50.

See his post reply on forum.index.hu: http://forum.index.hu/Article/viewArticle?a=123565879&t=9198082

 

After I read your description I noticed that in my watch the movement probably was changed.

The seller wasn't honest when asked for about the watch.

Hello! 

It was very interesting to read about my watch and our conversation.

Actually I sold this Puma watch after I had information about the wrong movements (we discussed it).

Last month I managed to buy an "original" Seiko 7A38 chrono to my collection and now I don't cry for that Puma watch. 

(steve31)

Now that is what you call bumping an old thread, Steve !  Good to see you posting on here at last. 

Well you may not miss that Puma Y19904-50  - it may have been a bit gaudy (and fitted with the wrong Orient J3920 movement) ....

but I would, if it had been mine. They're very rare; much rarer than many Seiko 7A38's - and yours is still the only one I've ever seen.

Seiko7A38 at May 19, 2014 at 7:35 AM

Now that is what you call bumping an old thread, Steve !  Good to see you posting on here at last. 

Well you may not miss that Puma Y19904-50  - it may have been a bit gaudy (and fitted with the wrong Orient J3920 movement) ....

but I would, if it had been mine. They're very rare; much rarer than many Seiko 7A38's - and yours is still the only one I've ever seen.

I believe that it was rare but I don't like non-original watches. Nowadays I'm more careful before buying a watch.

If I had enough time later I will show my 7A38-7270 in the right topic. (all parts are original  )