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Forum Home > 7A38-xxxx Model Specific Area > 7A38-706B (SAAxxxJ sales codes unknown) Two-Tone White (Roman & Arabic) dials

Seiko7A38
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Belated edit by Admin, dated 13th March 2016:


This topic was originally erroniously titled: 7A38-706B SAA084J Two-Tone White (Roman & Arabic) dials, based upon available information / knowledge at that time. Although there are several references to SAA084J in this thread (it's the only 7A38-706B sales model code documented on Seiko's database), none of the variants covered in this thread are the SAA084J. They are subsequent releases (dating from December 1988), presumably destined for the Italian market. Their sales codes currently remain unknown.

Hence the revised somewhat wordy topic title I've just given it. The reason for the change of topic title being ....


On 12th March 2016, a new forum member 'DenDirk' started a new thread in this forum section which originally had the topic title: Found this in my desk. He posted two photos of his watch - another two-tone 7A38-706B variant with a different white Roman dial. Zooming in, it appears to have the correct 720L dial p/n designator to the right of the non-existent VI mark. That and comparing its various components with the Seiko Oceania parts lists shown in this thread, point to Dirk's watch being the pukka SAA084J. :)


I did consider merging the two threads, but as the majority of this thread is already given over to the Italian market versions with the 727O and 728O dials, rather than confuse matters further, I've decided to let the two threads run in parallel and changed their topic titles accordingly. I trust (despite this somewhat belated edit) that this thread still makes sense to readers.


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This is where (and how) this thread originally started ....


In writing this topic, which will, in turn, lead into two further topics on variants of 7A38-706A, I need to be circumspect in my choice of wording. The last thing I want to do is to 'rubbish' a 7A38 belonging to a forum member and fellow collector. Particularly as it's the only example of a 7A38-706B that I've seen to date. But I'm now having doubts as to its authenticity. The problem is, I also know that the source of my information, Seiko Oceania's database, which points to this watch possibly being a 'wrong un' is not necessarily wholly accurate. There are a few errors; indeed data for some 7A38's, including two of the related 7A38-706A models, is completely missing.


June 24, 2013 at 7:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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The watch in question first appeared here on page 6 of the Censimento: Seiko 7A28/38/48 thread on Orologi & Passioni in October 2011, posted by SuperMario_Bros. He wrote:

Aggiornato il post con gli splendidi esemplari di The Master of Speed, posto anche il mio brutto anatroccolo.

The last two words translate as 'Ugly Ducking'. 




Mario subsequenly sold it in January 2012 http://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=59583389Vendo Seiko 7A38-706B [Venduto]


It was purchased by Manuel (a.k.a. '6309 7040') who posted this photo on page 9 of the O&P Censimento: Seiko 7A28/38/48 thread.




Manuel later posted this rather better photo here in an O&P WRUW thread on 28/03/12, again referring to it as 'the ugly duckling'.

Il brutto anatroccolo della serie 7A38. 




In this third photo, you can clearly see the dial part number 7A38 - 727O at the bottom - and therein, possibly lies the problem ....


June 24, 2013 at 7:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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If you search Seiko Oceania's database on 7A38-706B it returns (the customary) 4 lines of results - one sales model code SAA084J:



At first glance, SAA084J could be Manuel's watch. It's a two-tone 7A38-706B with a white dial. 'SILVER' in the dial colour field (as I discovered a long time ago) usually means White. Don't ask me why - it's just another of those little anomolies you get used to. :roll:

However, if it was, Manuel's should have 720L printed at the bottom, not 727O. Another useful anorak fact I've learned from studying Seiko part number formats is that a 4th digit 'L' in a dial part number signifies that it is lumed, whereas 'O' signifies without lume. I'd noticed this discrepancy in dial part numbers a couple of years ago, but today I went through the parts list and found a few more. :/




The hand set called up in this parts list with the 720L dial is completely different to those delicate 'leaf shaped' hands used with the 727O dial on Manuel's 7A38-703B. The hour and minute hands are gold plated baton style, with lume (in fact, the same hands are used on the silver-grey dialed two-tone 7A38-7060); the sweep hand is black with a lume pip and the sub-dial hands are gold.


Whereas there's no denying it's deserved 'ugly duckling' moniker, to my eye at least, Manuel's 7A38-706B doesn't look quite 'wrong' enough to be a franken combination - although there's an even chance it could be. I've seen plenty of franken dial + movement swaps using 7A38-706x watch cases over the years, a good number of which have been documented on this forum - some not so subtle. The real irony, for me, is that when I first clapped eyes on a gold tone 7A38-706A, using the same white arabic-number 727O dial, which I subsequently bought on eBay in November 2011, is I thought that was the franken, based on a then assumption that Manuel's watch was a good un ! :roll: Here's a link to a thread on RLT I wrote at the time: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=71380


What I think is just as likely is that there were two two-tone 7A38-706B's - SAA084J with the 720L dial and another - sales model code T.B.D., and that the data for Manuel's version is completely missing from Seiko Oceania's database. As for there being two watches, one a two-tone 7A38-706B and the other a gold-tone 7A38-706A using the same 727O dial, it wouldn't be the first time. There is at least one precedent in the 7A38 model range, that I can think of, off the top of my head: the relatively common two-tone 7A38-7270 SAA094J and the much scarcer gold-tone 7A38-727A SAA126J, both using the off-white 'short baton' 723OX914 non-lume dial.


All it really needs to ratify Manuel's 7A38-706B would be sight of another example. Of course, the icing on the cake would be seeing the version with the alternate 720L dial. Problem is, with these watches, we're not just talking about 'ugly ducklings', but 'hens teeth'.


June 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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So, having publicly cast doubts upon the authenticity of Manuel's two-tone 7A38-706B with the Arabic number 727O dial, what should turn up on Orologi & Passioni this afternoon, on page 17 of their Censimento: Seiko 7A28/38/48 thread but this, posted by 'Nitrostorm':


  (Original photo as posted rotated 90° for clarity).


Io questa volta ho voluto rischiare (incoraggiato anche dal basso prezzo) ed ho acquistato un 7A38-706B praticamente a scatola chiusa.


So we're now looking at a Roman numeral 728O dial in a two-tone case, as opposed to my all-SGP gold-plated 7A38-706A version.

Two wrongs may not make a right, and although 3 out of the 4 permutations aren't documented on Seiko's database (the one that is documented - model SAA084J has a completely different 720L dial number), what this now points to is both the Arabic 727O and Roman 728O versions of the dial having been available in either all gold-plated (as a 7A38-706A) or two-tone (as a 7A38-706B).

As per the other watches seen previously (including my 7A38-706A's), this 7A38-706B has an Italian / English day wheel (GIO).


August 1, 2013 at 11:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Post Moved
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Originally posted by Licu on November 9, 2014 at 8:59 PM

(as a new thread in this section, entitled: Any idea which model is this? - now merged)


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/gt-gt-SEIKO-CRONO-ANNI-80-lt-lt-/301374135809

Case back says 7A88-766B? Is it 7A38-766B? Or just a franken?


Regards, Adrian.


November 10, 2014 at 1:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Post Moved
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Originally posted by Seiko7A38 on November 9, 2014 at 9:51 PM


There's definitely something screwy going on with that case-back model # stamping, Adrian - but I'd say it's a 7A38-706B. ;)




See: http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9100797-7a38-706b-salescodeunknown-two-tone-white-roman-arabic-dials

.... and scroll down the page. I'll move your post and tack it onto the end of that thread, tomorrow. Done. Thanks for posting the link.


November 10, 2014 at 1:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Post Moved
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Originally posted by Licu on November 9, 2014 at 10:40 PM


Ok, thank you. I've bought that so I will let you know what's written on the dial and back in approx 1 week when it arrives.

Even if it is a franken I would not complain a lot considering the price I've paid for it as I can use it for parts.


November 10, 2014 at 1:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Adrian. I can tell you, before you even receive it, what will be printed at the bottom of the dial: JAPAN 7A38 -728O.

The case-back should be stamped 7A38-706B, so yours with what looks like 7A88-766B is obviously a manufacturing error.

It certainly is not a Franken - it's another of these Italian market 7A38-706x 'specials' which all appear to have been produced in December 1988. Is that perhaps another 'double stamping' error I can see in that case-back photo ? Serial number 8DD566 ?


I certainly wouldn't complain at the price you won it for: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301374135809


So if you are thinking about breaking it up for parts, please send it to me instead ! :P


Here's the remainder of the Italian eBay seller's listing photos:




To understand how your watch fits into this range of obscure Italian market models (which aren't documented on Seiko's database) ....

May I suggest you read the longer thread about the equivalent 7A38-706A gold-tones:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/9135213-7a38-706a-seiko-saaxxxj-sales-codes-unknown-gold-plated


November 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Licu
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Posts: 39

Thank you for all the info, great as usual. Maybe this stamping error makes it more collectable (as it is the case with stamps). Strangely enough, I do like how it looks, even though few years I go I strongly disliked goldie watches or roman numerals. I think I have paid so little on it since it was not listed in many Ebay searches variants. What I did, is to give a "Seiko" search on the Sunday and sorting by ending soonest, just to catch some listings I may have missed (following the myth that you should end the auction on Sunday). I will make some additional photos once it arrives.


November 10, 2014 at 2:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Licu
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Posts: 39

Hi Paul,

Watch arrived some time ago (but only now I found the time to reply, sorry about that).

The strange thing is that the caseback is totally different to the one pictured in the ebay listing:




It shows a conventional model number (7A38-706B, as you correctly predicted) and a different serial number (8D7563 instead of the indicated 8DD566). So only some letters differ, which makes me believe that the seller photoshopped the serial and model number on the caseback (just copied and pasted the letters around). Wonder why he did that. It may worth dropping him an email.

Otherwise, the watch seems to be the same as in the pictures (same scratches) and it is in good condition (much better than pictured, as these tend to show the scratches deeper than in real life).

Here are more pictures of the watch after changing the strap:






Waiting for an update about your watch. ;)

Regards, Adrian.


January 20, 2015 at 11:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Well, I was going to hold off writing up about mine until the watch had actually arrived and I'd had a chance to closely examine it ....

But as Adrian has let the cat out of the bag, I may as well make a start.


Knowing I was interested in one of these (if only to learn more about the strange case-back stampings, as I already had a gold-plated -706A version, with the same -708O dial in my collection), last week, Adrian kindly PM'd me a link to another eBay listing for one. ;)

It was offered by the same Italian eBay seller 68giri. Indeed the two listings are very similar in their layout / content.

I won that auction on Sunday evening, nailing it in the final seconds:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301479020063



Here's the listing photos - overall cosmetic condition is similar to Adrian's:



Here's where it gets interesting:




Zooming in on the model number in the case-back photo, this one appears to be stamped 7A33-766B. :o (The case-back photo in the seller's previous eBay listing in November appeared to show 7A88-766B). The serial number is a conventional 8D prefix as expected - all these Italian market specials, seen to date, have been produced in December 1988, but followed by a rather devillish 6666. 


However, if you look closely at the last 6 digit, you'll see a lighter circle around it - possible evidence of it having been Photo-shopped.

Adrian had already given me a 'heads' up about the discrepancy of his case-back (seller's eBay listing photo vs actual received) ....

So last Wednesday, I messaged the seller asking the question:


Although he had 4 full days in which to do so, the seller did not deign to reply to my question. 


If you translate the Italian description (of which only the first short paragraph refers to the watch, with absolutely no reference to the correct model number), these two later paragraphs indicate a measure of this misguided eBay seller's arrogance and stupidity:


VI PREGO CORTESEMENTE DI GUARDARE LE FOTO sono più chiare di descrizioni lunghe e noiose. Illustrano esattamente quello che riceverete a casa.


PLEASE LOOK THE PICTURES are clearer than long and boring descriptions. They illustrate exactly what you receive at home.


Gli orologi sono come da foto sono tutti funzionanti e provengono dalla mia collezione privata, le scatole originali sono incluse solo se citate nella descrizione, non rilascio dichiarazioni di nessun tipo ! Se cercate il pelo nell'uovo ci sono altri venditori disponibili che sapranno accontentar Vi.


The watches are as photos are all working and come from my private collection, the original boxes are included only if mentioned in the description, not issuing statements of any kind! If you look at the hairs there are other sellers available that will satisfy you.


So based on his above statement, if when the watch arrives, the case-back stampings are significantly different to his listing photo, regardless of the condition of the rest of the watch, I think I would be well within my rights to leave him a fairly scathing negative feedback. If indeed he has photo-shopped the case-back numbers, I'm still bemused why someone might go to this effort, being ignorant of the importance of the correct 7A38 model number, but not do anything to hide the worst of the slipped tool marks. :roll:


Let's see when it arrives ....


January 21, 2015 at 6:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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I won't bore readers with all the implausible details (which incredibly included changing my house number to 6 on his postal receipt), but due to the complete and utter incompetence of this very confused Italian eBay seller, a month after the auction ended, I'd almost given this watch up for lost. :/ It finally arrived yesterday - thanks to the intuition of a local DHL operative, after this nincompoop also managed to cock up my workplace's postal address (which I'd specified for the re-delivery) by omitting the actual company name. :roll:


No surprises on the case-back: 7A38-706B s/n 8D6960.




NOT 7A33-766B s/n 8D6666 per the seller's photo-shopped eBay photo.


February 18, 2015 at 7:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

PHK
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Posts: 227

Great to hear a happy ending. Nice to see the appropriate NEGATIVE! feedback you left! :lol:


--

Paul in Vegas.  8)

February 19, 2015 at 6:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Paul. That (negative) feedback was wholly appropriate at the time I left it, about a week ago - when I had given the watch up for lost. :(

The seller has since requested a feedback revision. In the light of his photo-shopping, I shall choose my new wording very carefully. ;)


PS The Italian word 'Deludente' doesn't mean 'deluded' (in the English sense), but 'disappointing'.


February 20, 2015 at 2:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9312

After some heated exchanges with the incompetent Italian eBay seller 68giri, who still adamantly refused to admit that he was Photoshopping the case-backs, thanks to the intervention of eBay Customer Service this watch ended up being a freebee. :D


Yesterday, a month after I'd finally received it, I got round to sorting out my two-tone 7A38-706B. It needed a good clean. I replaced the scratched original Seiko p/n 320W42GN00 crystal with a Sternkreuz p/n XMF320.927 (slightly smaller polished bevel edge); cleaned and greased the sticky pushers; replaced the undersized Sony SR927 battery he'd fitted with a correct size Renata #394 and fitted a new case-back gasket; as received there wasn't one. :roll:


I did toy with the idea of fitting a Seiko p/n G1105C bracelet and turning it into a 'brutto anatroccolo' (see top of the page), but as I haven't yet seen any evidence of that combination with the Roman numeral dial, I've held off for the time being. Instead, for now, I've replaced the lurid 18mm green mock croc' strap with one of those Taikonaut 20mm quick-release Faux Frog grain straps that I tried on my gold-tone 7A38-706A. Seems to work better on the two-tone. 




Although the movement was mostly clean, it had suffered a localized battery leak, which hadn't been properly cleaned up. That may be the cause of an unusual intermittent fault with the day / date changeover, which I'd observed - that I'm going to track this week.


March 23, 2015 at 7:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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In fact, it didn't take anything like a whole week to confirm the problem. I was pretty sure that when I'd finally received the watch, I'd set the day / date and time correctly. Then it got buried in a pile of other 'to do' jobs. When I picked it up again, in March, both the day and date were wrong. February being a 28 day month, you'd expect the date to be three days behind, but not the day. :/

Both Day and Date were perfectly aligned in their windows. So I re-set it last Monday - as per the above wrist shot.


The Italian day / date wheel is printed as follows: MON LUN TUE MAR WED MER THUR GIO FRI VEN SAT SAB SUN DOM

I checked the watch every morning and recorded the day / date displayed:

(MON 23), LUN 24, TUE 25, MAR 26, WED 27, MER 28, THUR 29 and today (Monday 30th) it's showing GIO, the Italian for Thursday.




Strangely, each time the day and date windows were perfectly aligned. Usually when you encounter a damaged day / date wheel, it sticks halfway through a day change, displaying it obliquely, half in / half out the window. This one is obviously buggered though, because it's only doing one half of the day changeover. Refreshing to know that I'm not going daft, but still bloody annoying. :mad:

So that's another replacement day / date wheel I've got to find from somewhere ! :roll:


March 30, 2015 at 7:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

PHK
Member
Posts: 227

I don't know...sounds to me like that watch is going to be too much trouble. The watch face and hands really should go to a new home here in The Colonies! ;) And a nice warm climate, at that! 8)

--

Paul in Vegas.  8)

April 2, 2015 at 4:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

PHK
Member
Posts: 227

Thanks to a heads up from Paul alerting me to a Seiko 7A38-706B on eBay Italy, I won the auction. :D


http://www.ebay.com/itm/252642215602



Finally, after four years of looking, waiting (and having Paul cornering the market on the Roman numeral models!) I now have one of my favorite models  :) and a Seiko 5T52-6A50 which will probably get flipped on eBay.

Personally, I've always liked Roman numerals on a white or cream colored dial with leaf hands. An acquired taste I'm sure.

Fingers crossed that I don't have any problems with Italian Mail… :P

Thanks again Paul.

--

Paul in Vegas.  8)

November 25, 2016 at 6:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 9312

Glad to see you won it, Paul :) although 91 Euros (for the job lot) is rather more than I expected you'd have to pay. :/


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252642215602


Hopefully you can recoup some of the outlay by selling that 5T52, as you suggest. :/

That was the first (Italian market) 7A38-706B I'd seen on eBay in well over 18 months.

Here's how the eBay listing looked just over a week ago, when it came up in my search.




Funzionanti vetri molto graffiato oro scolorito putroppo molti graffi qui e li del tempo uno ha il cinturino originale il 5t52 l'altro credo che non sia originale intendo il cinturino per il resto sono entrambi ok Buon asta a tutti il prezzo lo fate voi.


Possibly not the best of examples, fitted with a non-original bracelet and with most of the gold plating worn off the bezel. :/

Hopefully you'll find a pristine 728O dial under that pock-marked crystal. Fingers crossed for you, my friend. ;)

I know how you say you like wabi, but if you want to improve the watch, it might be an idea to start keeping an eye open for a decent 7A38-7069 (either a 'head only' or on a strap - ideally a non-runner) - they share the same watch case.


Interesting to note, like all the other 'Italian market' 7A38-706x's we've seen to date, this one also has an 8Dxxxx serial number.


November 26, 2016 at 1:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

PHK
Member
Posts: 227

Not the best example of a 7A38-706B, granted, so I emailed the seller for more pictures. Received three and they weren't much better. Not to worry for I have three cases that can fix that, all 7A38-7069's.

The price was a bit high and I probably could have gotten it cheaper if the first bidder hadn't jacked it up to €5.67 right from the 'get go' ;)

No worries…I've waited a long time for the chance to get a 7A38-706B Roman numeral in my collection.

--

Paul in Vegas.  8)

November 26, 2016 at 8:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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