Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > Non-Seiko 7Axx Discussion Area (Re-branded mvmt's) > Orient J39 - variations on a theme part # 99 (ones that got away)

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 11809

I'm going to start off this thread by copying and pasting something I've written / quoted a number of times before ....


Harking back to this vague statement included in an email reply which I received from the Orient Watch Co., back in February 2010:

 

We had several type of J39 chronograph models until 1990 year, but it is regret to say that we do not have such records in hand now.


.... You've gotta wonder just exactly how many different variations of J39 they produced. Or at least I do, anyway. 

Particularly when you start adding the Racer branded versions and looking at different dial / colour combinations. 


Because that several type(s) quoted by Orient Watch Co. seems to be endless - as do the permutations / model numbers. :/


August 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 11809

Did it really need yet another separate topic on the seemingly endless model variations of Orient (and Racer) J39's ? :|

Probably not. :P But finding the existing threads unsuitable (due to their topic titles, e.g. 'My newest incoming') and nowhere else to tack these onto - and wanting to at least record their existence, it seemed like a good idea. :) These are watches I have seen online, but unfortunately not been able, for one reason or another, either to add them to my collection - or in some cases even identify them. :( Hence the 'ones that got away'. For now, at least. Hopefully this will remain a fairly short thread.


August 20, 2017 at 12:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

This was the first such, which I spotted purely by accident, back in June, by googling Orient J3920 (the calibre).

It was listed on a Polish classifieds site, Allegro.pl and I used Google to get these screen prints with English translations.


http://allegro.pl/piekny-zlocony-orient-chronograph-super-stan-i6839020129.html

PIEKNY ZŁOCONY ORIENT CHRONOGRAPH - SUPER STAN !!!




As can be seen from the case-back stampings and the seller's description, it's a J39911-50 - an all-over gold plated, black dialed equivalent sister model to my recently acquired NOS (two-tone white dialed) Orient J39012-50 documented in this parallel thread.

The gold plated, metal skinned cast resin watch case with its rather crudely moulded Tachymeter bezel is also common to the RACER J39907-50 and Puma Y19904-50 documented elswhere in this forum section.


By some unlucky fluke, I stumbled across this listing a matter of hours after it had ended - sold on 9th June for 267 Zloty (equivalent to approx. $73 USD / £57 GBP). Not an unreasonable price. Initially I was disappointed, but after closer examination of the seller's photos (there were a total of 15 embedded in the description - many very similar), I convinced myself it wasn't the best of examples. Apart from the wear to the case, it had obviously been messed about about with. Despite the seller's glowing description, the crystal clearly wasn't original (far too thick, protruding above the bezel) and I have strong suspicions about the originality of those lumed spade hour and minute hands (compared to the slender unlumed hands used on the other equivalent models). I guess sight of another unmolested example in the future will be the only way of knowing for certain. :/


August 20, 2017 at 12:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 11809

The next one was listed on Italian classifieds site Subito.it on 12th July. I spotted it the same day. Fat lot of good that did me. :roll:



http://www.subito.it/abbigliamento-accessori/orient-cronografo-uguale-seiko-7a38-caserta-214189607.htm



As you can see, no price was stated. But worse were the seller's last words of the description - No email - no shipping, FFS ! :o

I did try messaging him to ask for the Orient J39xxx-xx model number off the case-back, but not surprisingly received no reply. :roll:

I'm not even sure if it's a genuine (unidentified) model or a Franken. The ill-fitting stainless bracelet clearly isn't original to the watch. The shape of the lugs are reminiscent of the various Orient J39 BreitBling clones, but this one has just a plain gold plated bezel. The design of the dial (indices and printing) is also very similar to say my J39722-70, but the 1/10s sub-dial increments are different.

It all became academic, when the listing disappeared into the ether after a week or so. :(


August 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 11809

That discrepancy in the marking of the 1/10s sub-dial increments (compared to the BreitBling Orient J39's) got me thinking. 

I remember I'd written something along very similar lines before somewhere. It just took a bit of head scratching find it again. 


Here's a partial copy and paste of a post I made in the RACER J39 by Orient Watch Co. thread over a year ago.


Originally posted by myself on July 5, 2016 at 9:45 AM:


Given the potential difficulties of purchasing any watches from ceasuridemana.ro, it was probably a bad move on my part, continuing to search on there for any more Orient / Racer J39's. But I did anyway - and found another that had been for sale for over a year.



http://www.ceasuridemana.ro/orient-racing-chronograph-date_a213543.html



  

It's another Orient case / model number I hadn't seen before - J39914-70. Although the case-back states 'Base Metal Bezel', I suspect the gold-plated case itself is another of those metal-skinned resin castings used on a good number of other 'dressy' models. When I first saw it, my first thoughts were that it was a Franken. The burgundy coloured dial (and particularly the layout of the printing) bears an uncanny resemblance to the similarly coloured dial of my 'beater' Racer J39026-70. But closer examination of the seller's photos shows that their sub-dial markings (particularly the 1/10 second) are subtly different.


August 21, 2017 at 8:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

Indeed that Racer / Orient J39914-70 is worthy of inclusion here because it's another variant that got away (already sold). 

Looking at that head on view of the unidentified grey dialed Orient J39 on Subito.it, they could almost be the same watch case.

Except that the grey Tachymeter ring appears to be much deeper - and it's difficult to gauge the length of those curved lugs.

If it is the same watch case, but in two-tone finish, that could make it a J39014-70 (the second '9' designates gold plating).

But as Orient and Racer variants don't always share the same case number (Orient Watch Co. were somewhat inconsistent in their model number allocation, to say the least), I wouldn't want to risk betting any money on it ! :roll:


August 21, 2017 at 8:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

Seiko7A38 at August 20, 2017 at 12:40 PM

This was the first such, which I spotted purely by accident, back in June, by googling Orient J3920 (the calibre).

It was listed on a Polish classifieds site, Allegro.pl and I used Google to get these screen prints with English translations.


http://allegro.pl/piekny-zlocony-orient-chronograph-super-stan-i6839020129.html

PIEKNY ZŁOCONY ORIENT CHRONOGRAPH - SUPER STAN !!!


As can be seen from the case-back stampings and the seller's description, it's a J39911-50 - an all-over gold plated, black dialed equivalent sister model to my recently acquired NOS (two-tone white dialed) Orient J39012-50 documented in this parallel thread.

The gold plated, metal skinned cast resin watch case with its rather crudely moulded Tachymeter bezel is also common to the RACER J39907-50 and Puma Y19904-50 documented elswhere in this forum section.


By some unlucky fluke, I stumbled across this listing a matter of hours after it had ended - sold on 9th June for 267 Zloty (equivalent to approx. $73 USD / £57 GBP). Not an unreasonable price. Initially I was disappointed, but after closer examination of the seller's photos (there were a total of 15 embedded in the description - many very similar), I convinced myself it wasn't the best of examples. Apart from the wear to the case, it had obviously been messed about about with. Despite the seller's glowing description, the crystal clearly wasn't original (far too thick, protruding above the bezel) and I have strong suspicions about the originality of those lumed spade hour and minute hands (compared to the slender unlumed hands used on the other equivalent models). I guess sight of another unmolested example in the future will be the only way of knowing for certain. :/



Another unmolested example of an Orient J39911-50 did subsequently appear. It wasn't too difficult to spot either, because not only did the seller include the model number in his title, but also 'Seiko 7A38'. It wasn't quite the same as the previous one: This had a dark blue dial, not black and the sub-dials were printed in black rather than red. It was however fitted with the correct style slender unlumed hands, confirming my suspicions about the previous example. It looked to be in pretty decent, little worn condition, but was fitted with a non-original replacement strap. It was listed last week by an Italian eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 1 Euro, BUT see below ....


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253552601965



OROLOGIO ORIENT CRONOGRAFO

VINTAGE DA COLLEZIONE

HA LO STESSO MOVIMENTO DEL SEIKO 7A38 e FERRARI CARTIER ANNI 80

SONO STATI I PRIMI CRONOGRAFI QUARTZ

MOVIMENTO QUARTZ ANNI 80 DEFINITO DAGLI ESPERTI IL MIGLIORE IN ASSOLUTO

GIORNO e DATA SI TROVANO NEL CONTATORE DESTRO DEL CRONOGRAFO, QUESTO PARTICOLARE LO RENDE UNICO

FUNZIONANTE alla perfezione IN TUTTO

CORONA ORIGINALE

FONDELLO ORIGINALE

CINTURINO NON ORIGINALE NUOVO MAI INDOSSATO BELLISSIMO

Vi verrà spedito l'orologio in foto

Spedizione accurata e soprattutto tracciabile


Like many Italian eBay sellers, this one also regularly uses a shill bidder to inflate his prices. It seems common practice in Italy.  If you check the bidding history, it's blatantly obvious that within an hour of listing it, the Italian eBay seller had used his other eBay ID, to set a hidden target 'reserve price' of 79 Euros.


Here's the shill bidder's 30-day activity (as was last Tuesday 10th @ 3:00pm):


I didn't have a problem with that and rapidly bid it up to 80 Euros. For almost the remainder of the 7-day listing, I was the high bidder - and I'll admit was quite looking forward to adding this to my collection. Set my heart on it. In anticipation, I'd even sorted out a nicely matching dark blue 18mm leather strap to fit to it. :roll: The auction ended yesterday lunchtime, selling for 156.67 Euros after 15 bids.



Unfortunately, I was too complacent. Transpired I was not the winning bidder. :(

I was out-sniped in the final seconds by a member of this forum using his now customary under-handed tactics.  24 hours later I am still  seething. 


April 18, 2018 at 6:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

Whereas this isn't 'one that got away' (though I probably should have allowed it to), it's connected with one that did earlier. Remember that unidentified Orient J39 'Seiko 7A38' that appeared briefly on Subito.it, back in July 2017 ? If not see my post higher up the page dated August 20, 2017 at 6:59 PM.



It had continued to bug me that I still didn't know what case-back model it was. :/

Subtitled: The things do in the name of 'Research'


A couple of weeks ago, I was browsing Subito.it and spotted this 'parts watch':


http://www.subito.it/abbigliamento-accessori/orient-crono-ricambi-orologeria-napoli-254342241.htm




Or not so much of a 'parts watch', as more correctly parts of a watch. :roll:


I saved the two photos, but forgot to save the description at the time. The listing quickly disappeared into the ether, but a cached google result stlll retains part of it:


9 Jun 2018 - Orient crono calibro j39021. Fin quando l'annuncio è visibile l'oggetto è disponibile.


I debated whether it was worth buying it at all, but at some point during our lengthy exchange of messages, the Italian seller said he might be able to find the watch case. He didn't, as it transpired, but I bought what he had left of it anyway. :roll:


It arrived on Monday. Clearly the same dial as the previously unidentified 'mystery' J39. Evidently the watch had suffered from fairly catastrophic water damage. There isn't actually very much that's redeemable or reusable. :(




Second brighter lit shot shows the rust staining around the perimeter of the dial:



A close-up zoom of the dial part number - J3929217-017 ....



Which ties in with the case-back number J39021-70:



The 'CS' suffix indicates it has a glued in crystal. The bezel is gold-plated base metal and I'm assuming that the 'stainless' part of the two-tone watch case is of plated metal-skinned resin construction - as most of these dressy Orient J39's seem to be. At least I know what I'm looking for now. :)


June 29, 2018 at 4:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

As I suspect a number of readers may have been watching it (by dint of the seller's inclusion of 'Seiko 7A38' in the title), I suppose I should confess. I managed to lose another auction for an Orient J39911-50 yesterday afternoon.  It was listed in the last week of August, by the same Italian eBay seller as the previous one - orologiprecisi, as a 7-day listing, with an opening bid price of 1 Euro. It wasn't in such good condition as the previous almost mint example. Studying the seller's photos, it appeared to have been fitted with a replacement crystal, which had been glued in (as it should be), but rather unevenly. That didn't worry me too much. It was a J39911-50 with a dark blue dial which had eluded me so far. My plan, had I won the auction, was to swap the Tachymeter ring, dial / movement and case-back into a spare NOS Racer J39907-50 watch case.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253834864054


OROLOGIO ORIENT CRONOGRAFO

PRIMI QUARTZ AL MONDO

STESSO MOVIMENTO QUARTZ SEIKO 7A38 JAMES BOND e FERRARI CARTIER ANNI 80

DEFINITO DAGLI ESPERTI IL MIGLIORE QUARTZ IN ASSOLUTO

QUADRANTE PERFETTO e BELLISSIMO CONTATORI COLOR ORO

DAY DATE ORE 15

VETRO PERFETTO

FONDELLO SERRATO A VITE

CONDIZIONI ESTETICHE ECCEZIONALI

CINTURINO COMPATIBILE DI QUALITÀ NUOVO MAI INDOSSATO

FIBBIA CAMBIATA CHE SI ABBINA PERFETTAMENTE CON IL COLORE DELLA CASSA

FUNZIONANTE IN TUTTO PERFETTAMENTE

CRONOGRAFO OK AZZERA PERFETTAMENTE

LO CONSIGLIO NON LASCIATELO SCAPPARE

PAGAMENTO SICURO SPEDIZIONE TRACCIABILE


This time, I didn't bother getting into any bidding wars against the seller's usual shill tactics. Indeed, for most of the listing's duration, bidding had stalled @ 30 Euros. I guess that must have made me complacent. Naturally, I'd set up an automated snipe, expecting to win, but lower than last time, commensurate with the watch's lesser condition. It wasn't high enough !! :( It sold for 135.56 Euros after 32 bids, to another random sniper !! :mad:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253834864054


September 4, 2018 at 8:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

A week ago, devious watch-botching Italian eBay seller pinup50miss listed an Orient J3920 movement, fitted with a black dial. The Buy-it-Now price is 99 Euros. Having bought a couple of watches from him, that he'd obviously buggered about with, I thought no more about. I added the listing to my eBay watching page, with the intention of going back and having another look at it again later and promptly forgot about it - until today. :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233138665196


MOVIMENTO 7A38 WATCH

ATTENZIONE: L'OGGETTO viene fornito come in foto è una giacenza di negozio viene fornito FUNZIONANTE AL 100%


The two photos he's uploaded are quite large (1600x1200), but badly out of focus, so try as I might, I couldn't read the dial part number (or make out much else). :roll:

It took a while for it to 'click' where I'd seen a similar dial before. It was of course, higher up this page. See my post dated June 29, 2018. This is another different colour dial / movement from a J39021-70. 8)


February 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

Having missed out on a couple of dark blue dialed Orient J39911-50 last year, much to my annoyance and chagrin, I'd set up a saved favourite eBay search, specifically to find myself one. One finally came up on eBay Italy last week, in almost NOS condition. I moved so quick to hit the Buy-it-Now button, I didn't take a screen print nor even add it to my eBay watching page first !


http:///www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153406078458

Orologio Cronografo ORIENT J39911 Chronograph acciaio placcato oro uomo Quarz...



The Italian eBay seller didn't describe it as 'NOS', but this example is fitted with the correct original tan leather strap, which appears hardly worn. I paid a little more than the previous two sold for, but was happy to be able to add one to my collection. :)


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153406078458

Just waiting in impatiently for DHL to deliver it.


March 13, 2019 at 5:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11809

Here's a slightly different wrist shot of my newly arrived J39911-50, to the one I've just posted in the WRUW thread.



March 13, 2019 at 10:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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