Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > eBay, LeBonCoin, Mercado Libre, Yahoo Japan, etc. > Heads Up on yet another 7A38 Franken(s) - Part 2 !!

7ARCool
Member
Posts: 168

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271023268038

JAPAN TITANIUM VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH SPORTS 100M QUARTZ MEN WATCH




What a crazy mis-match of hands! :lol:

July 25, 2012 at 1:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Chris. 

Actually, most of them (apart from the sweep second hand) appear to be the original 7A38-7130 hands painted - as are the batons.

It's also fitted with a non-original dial ring - of which I still haven't figured out what the 10-90 numbering scale represents. 


Andre ('Nova') had already flagged it in another thread, yesterday, not long after it was first listed:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7588308-bad-examples-of-re-finishing-seen-on-ebay-caveat-emptor

.... and scroll down the page.

July 25, 2012 at 2:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

Partial quote from the bottom of the previous page:

 

So just to prove that the reverse is true, here's another 7A38 / 7A48 Franken I found today on Vatera.hu (Hungary's eBay equivalent):

 

http://ekszer-ora.vatera.hu/karora/ferfi_karora/seiko/seiko_15_koves_quartz_stopper_1621678862.html


It's clearly a 7A38-7000's 700L dial / movement in a 7A48-7009 case and bracelet, using the 7A48-7009's Roman numeral dial ring.

The bezel is probably the original 7A48-7009 part, with the gold plating stripped off / polished, rather than from the 7A38-7000 donor.

Asking price is a fanciful 45,000 Hungarian Forints - equivalent to approx. £120 / $190US. What's Caveat Emptor in Hungarian ?? :/


"What's Caveat Emptor in Hungarian ??"

It`s difficult to translate properly but it`s something like this: "Óvakodjon a vásárló"

Or another translation: "Vásárolj a saját felelősségedre"

Sometimes I check vatera.hu as well but it`s difficult to find a 7A38....especially in a decent condition.

July 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Seiko7A38 at July 25, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Chris. 

Actually, most of them (apart from the sweep second hand) appear to be the original 7A38-7130 hands painted - as are the batons.

It's also fitted with a non-original dial ring - of which I still haven't figured out what the 10-90 numbering scale represents. 


Andre ('Nova') had already flagged it in another thread, yesterday, not long after it was first listed:

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7588308-bad-examples-of-re-finishing-seen-on-ebay-caveat-emptor

.... and scroll down the page.

That technicolor dial Ti 7A38-7130 still managed to make $124.50 (approx. £79.23). The winning bidder must be colour-blind ! 

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=271023268038

July 29, 2012 at 1:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

About time we had a proper (No - that's a completely inappropriate adjective) blatant 7A38 Franken to give this thread a bump up.

Well, this one's a classic case of misrepresentation. Listed yesterday evening on eBay by a Hungarian seller, name of artdeco_hun:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190723108433

Seiko 7A38-7010 Chronograph / All Stainless Steel



 

Features:

Vintage Seiko 7A38-7010 Chronograph for sale.

The case is all stainless steel.

The movement is battery powered.

Watch works good with all chrono functions.

Water-resistance not tested recently.

Diameter without crown: approx. 38 mm.

 

NOTE: I'm also owner of account nandor1580 and store "auctionchrono"!


Well, the watch may be fitted with the case-back and charcoal grey / black 702L dial / hands from a stainless 7A38-7010 ....

but the rest of it - the watch case, Tachymeter ring and bracelet are from a well-worn two-tone 7A38-7060 (my typo corrected).

The worn gold-plated pushers are obviously original to the case, but I suspect the stainless crown is from the donor 7A38-7010.


Here's what the two donor 7A38's would originally have looked like (excuse the Q&D wrist shots):





September 6, 2012 at 3:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

Bloody Hungarians! :D

What annoys me a lot is that the item location is Szeged where actually I came from :P

I really "like" that all the chrono`s hands are not aligned propery...and look at that battery....OMG....alkaline AG9.....quality! :lol::lol::lol:

I`m feeling the tempting vibration in my fingers to bid on this one :P

 

Sorry Paul for my cheeky behavior but the case doesn`t belong to a 7A38-7060 two tone instead of a 7020? Or maybe a 7A28-7020?

September 6, 2012 at 4:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Well, I didn't like to say, Arpad ! :P


Sorry to contradict you, but I'm pretty darned sure the watch case was originally a two-tone 7A38-7060 (albeit one with almost all the

gold plating completely worn away). The bracelet is stamped G1105(C), which would be correct for a two-tone 7A38-7060 SAA016J. 

Edit: Just noticed my own typo - obviously I'd got 7A38-7060 and 7A28-7020 mixed up. My apologies, Arpad. ;)


By the way, as far as that seller's statement in his description goes:


 NOTE: I'm also owner of account nandor1580 and store "auctionchrono"!


That is NO KIND of a recommendation - trust me. The seller's real name is Nandor Janusko.

I have bought a 7A38 from him, on a past occasion - in haste. I am still repenting at my leisure. :/

I suggest anyone contemplating a purchase from this eBay vendor (any of his user names) thinks long and hard, before rushing in.


 Óvakodjon a vásárló, or to put it another way .... Caveat Emptor, Gentlemen

September 6, 2012 at 4:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

Paul,

I think I wrote that sentence in a wrong way, my English grammar is still cr*p, but I wanted to tell the same that the case is 7A38-7060 instead of the 7A38-7020. That was my intention. :) 

 

But my second thought was the 7A28-7020 two tone case with black dial. But is it likely that a 7A38 movement wouldn`t fit into that case.

The case is very similar:

 

As I remember roughly a year ago I wanted to buy a 7A38-7020 (with grey-black dial) from this seller, I sent him an email with a list of problems with the watch and I also made an offer....we couldn`t agree in the price and he absolutely ignored my "problem list". Definately "avoid" category.

September 6, 2012 at 5:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

That's O.K., Arpad - I understood perfectly. ;)

It was my own fault for not having properly proof read my own original post, before replying to (and correcting) yours. My apologies.

I really should stick to just 7A38's. Talking about 7A28's as much as I have recently, it's all too easy to get the case #'s muddled up.

Besides, I don't think this seller is smart / skilled enough to have shoe-horned a 7A38 dial / movement into a 7A28-702x case. 

If he was, then he might have made a better choice of matching black Tachymeter ring, like this one from a 7A28-702A:




September 6, 2012 at 5:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Ahem. If you click on the eBay link for that 7A38 Franken: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190723108433 you'll see that it now reads ....

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.


Seller must have pulled it. I wonder how that happened. :|

Never doubt the power of the assertively written word. ;)

September 6, 2012 at 7:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

It's back again - rather more accurately described, this time. :D


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190723517937

Seiko Franken 7A38-7010 Chronograph / All Stainless Steel



 

Features:

Vintage Seiko Franken 7A38-7010 Chronograph for sale.

The case is all stainless steel.

The movement is battery powered.

Watch works good with all chrono functions.

Water-resistance not tested recently.

Diameter without crown: approx. 38 mm.


According to eBay members description:

 "Franken made up from a 7A38-7060 case and bracelet with a 7A38-7010 dial and case-back" 

September 6, 2012 at 4:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

The eBay auction for that 7A38-7060 / 7A38-7010 Franken ended about half an hour ago ....

Surprisingly, even though 'properly' described as such (in the revised listing), it still made $102.50 (approx. £63.66) after 40 bids.

What I found more incredible was the sheer number of different bidders involved - I'm not about to count them, but it was over 20 !!

See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=190723517937

The auction also received some 566 views over the 7-day listing period. 

September 13, 2012 at 4:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

I think someone just wanted it so badly because of the dial and the hands. They look very good to me..but for that price..no thanks. :/

September 14, 2012 at 4:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Up until now, I think I've been fairly generous to the multi-named Filipino eBay seller: Restoredwatches / JFM_watches / Nippontime. :roll:


I've restricted my criticism of their carelessly mixed-and-match, worn-out and warmed-over 7Axx watches to the 'hotch potch' thread.

Well, now the gloves are well and truly off. Tonight they (or should I say, Nippontime), listed this mis-represented piece of total crap:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230854306311

COLLECTORS SEIKO 7A38 702H SPEEDMASTER GOLD SS DD CHRONOGRAPH # 446380 WATCH $1




What you're looking at probably did once start life as a (two-tone gold dialed) 7A38-702H. But this one looks pretty much shagged.

The bracelet has been repaired (botched), and the once gold-plated bezel has been polished to death in the best Filipino tradition.

If the Tachymeter dial ring is the original, it has faded from gold to almost a pale silvery colour, as found in the two-tone 7A38-7020.

The black / grey subs 709L dial is out of a 7A38-7070 diver, and it looks like the main hands have been re-painted - all over badly !

The more observant of you will also notice it has Black on White day and date wheels, so it's not the movement from a 7A38-7070.


And before Arpad ;) (or anybody else suggests): I think someone just wanted it so badly because of the dial and the hands.

Just take a good close look at the state of the lume batons.  One to be avoided - like The Plague. Run away very fast ! 


Now linked to where it matters: http://www.philippinewatchclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16608&p=327344#p327344


September 21, 2012 at 6:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

If you're in any doubt how a 7A38-702H should look, here's one of mine. Actually this one's a 7A38-702A, IIRC, but 'same difference'.




Here's where that Franken's black / grey subs 709L dial properly belongs - in a 7A38-7070. Note the White on Black day / date wheels:




.... and here's how a 7A38-702x Franken fitted with the 709L black / grey subs dial can be made to look, with very little effort !!



September 21, 2012 at 6:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Well, despite my warnings, Niippontime's 7A38-702H / 7A38-7070 Franken still managed to make $152 (approx. £94) after 18 bids. :o


See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=230854306311


It just amazes me how they manage to find the mug punters. :roll:

September 29, 2012 at 4:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

Seiko7A38 at January 31, 2012 at 11:04 AM

The next one, again from eBay Italy could almost be called subtle, in comparison ....

If it weren't for the seller's obvious greed and stupidity. :roll:

  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260946615336

SEIKO SPORTS 100 7A38-7080



 

It' s the head of the original 7A38-7080, with what appears to be a half-decent bezel.

But fitted with the dial, hands and presumably movement out of a 7A38-7180, like this:



 

I haven't quite yet figured out what the bracelet is off - but although similar, it's not off the donor 7A38-7180. I've got an idea it's off a black chrome H557 Ana-Digi - it's 18mm lug fitting, not 20mm, as it really needed to be, to match the lug box width of the head. You can see the mis-matched spread of the spring bars in the seller's third photo. 

 

His Buy-it-Now price is 399.00 Euros (no offers) which equates to approx. £333.68


But the unbelievable cheek of this same seller may be his own undoing - because at the same time, he was stupid enough to list this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260946616524

QUADRANTE SEIKO SPORTS 100 7A38-7080




Which is the original correct 709L dial and hands from the 7A38-7080 he butchered. :roll: 

 

Buy-it-Now price of 99.00 Euros (again no offers) equivalent to approx. £82.79


Caveat Emptor - as always, Gentlemen. 


I thought for a brief moment that I was seeing things  .... but I wasn't.  Almost 12 months later, it's back again !  


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261150937930


January 4, 2013 at 2:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

As the eBay seller is a member of this forum, albeit a relatively new one, perhaps I should be a little circumspect in flagging up this particular 7A38 Franken. But then I wouldn't be true to myself. :/ I'll just stick to the facts as I see them. I'm sure he'll understand. ;)


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321061618939



The seller's description simply reads as follows:


Up for sell is a Vintage SEIKO Sports Chronograph 7A38-7070 

The Watch is in working condition.

The Case has some normal scratches from wearing. 

Diameter of the bezel is 40mm.


The seller fails to state that it is fitted with the Taupe 703L dial and hands from a stainless 7A38-7020/9 and a non-original bracelet. 

When he's previously posted photos of it, including the one below on UhrForum.de, it was fitted with the correct p/n B1241S bracelet.



The 7A38-7070 case-back of this franken he's offering has a serial number beginning 42xxxx, making it an early production version - which besides the correct 709L dial, would also have been fitted with the 'polished edge' hand set, and originally have looked like this:


January 24, 2013 at 8:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

It's been a while since I've seen anything quite this bad (or so blatant), but here's an absolute classic 'bitza' 7A38 Franken from the bench of Filipino arch watch botcher Badingski - a.k.a. Ramoncito Bangit. Would anybody else like to identify the component parts ?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200999226110


Hint - the case-back is off a gold-tone 7A38-7190 ! :lol:


December 6, 2013 at 11:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 11897

So nobody going to have a go at it ? :/  It's dead easy really. ;)


The case was once a gold-tone 7A38-7000. The main body of the watch case has been stripped of its gold plating, but perversely the bezel, pushers and crown have been replated (in Badingski's inimitable slapdash fashion). The Tachymeter ring appears to be from a 7A28-7029 and the Sports 100 703L dial is out of a 7A38-702A or H. All topped off with the case-back from a gold-tone 7A38-7190


In fact, the travesty that he's simultaneously trying to pass off as a 7A38-7280 isn't much better. :roll:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301035578460



There's something I can't quite pinpoint about the bezel, that doesn't look right to my eye, for starters, but ....

Again there's a stripped / partially re-plated watch case - fitted with a case-back from an all-over gold-plated 7A38-7280. But instead of having the normal creamy white 7250XS14 Arabic number dial, this thing has a gold 7250XG14 Arabic number dial from a 7A38-7289.

Oh and and the hands are lumed - not the correct slender leaf pattern hands used with either of them.


If you bother to read Badingski's misleading description, you'll notice it features the word 'ORIGINAL' on quite a few occasions:




What you've got to remember with botched-up 'mix and match' crap like this, is that it doesn't necessarily mean original to this watch.

Caveat Emptor, as always. Gentlemen. 


December 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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