Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > 7A38-xxxx Model Specific Area > 7A38-7060 Gold Tone - Made in Korea version

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Here's an intriguing FS advert originally posted on WUS on 26th January 2012, which I only discovered while browsing yesterday:


http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/seiko-7a38-7060-chronograph-big-reduction-639773.html


Seiko 7A38-7060 chronograph - BIG REDUCTION


The price on the first page is shown as $175, and if you follow all the way through the numerous 'bumps' to the second page ....

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/seiko-7a38-7060-chronograph-big-reduction-639773-2.html

even now the price is only 'reduced' to $155. So Lord only knows what the seller Lester Burnham had it set at in the first place ....

because in my opinion, given the general condition of the gold-plating, he's still got a few more further reductions to make, to sell it.


But there is something quite interesting about this watch (which doesn't add any value) that the seller appears to be totally oblivious to.


Anybody like to hazard a guess ?  

March 7, 2012 at 1:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

What ? No takers - not even a wild guess. :(


O.K. Here's another clue:

These are two wrist shot photos of the same 7A38-7060 on it's original bracelet, which Lester previously posted on WUS:



It surprises me that he didn't use these photos in his FS advert on WUS - they're a lot better than the dark ones he's used. :roll:


Now the clue is not something that you can actually see in those two photos, it is something you can't see - which is missing

March 7, 2012 at 6:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

7ARCool ©
Member
Posts: 168

I am intrigued !

The caseback?

As the watch seems to be sitting too close to his wrist. :lol:


March 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Close, Chris. ;) The answer IS actually on the case-back - try again. :D


Here's another clue ....

This is the correct bracelet for this particular gold-tone 7A38-7060 - photo borrowed from Lester Burnham's WUS FS advert:



March 7, 2012 at 6:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sir Alan
Member
Posts: 458

Is it missing the tiny little symbol on the dial (after the 710L bit)?


March 7, 2012 at 6:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Getting close - try the other side - oh and this one has a 708x dial. :P

That's called the Suwa symbol, Simon - it's one of Seiko's trade-marks. 8)


I later found this, in an old reference document, the Seiko Branding Dictionary, originally posted on the old Network54 by Martback:


Did you know what the little logos on Seiko dials meant? If you look closely on Seiko dials you often see a little logo.

I will explain the most common ones on vintage Seikos but there might very well be more of these.

Sorry for the small pictures but these things are small in real life.

 

Let us start with the easy ones:


Suwa - The Swirl means Suwa - today's Seiko Epson.



March 7, 2012 at 6:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

7ARCool ©
Member
Posts: 168

The dial/bezel belong in a 7A38-7000 case like this? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150773335400


March 7, 2012 at 9:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

7ARCool © at March 7, 2012 at 9:52 PM

The dial/bezel belong in a 7A38-7000 case like this? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150773335400


Nope - sorry Chris - wouldn't work. The bezels and Tachymeter rings are different diameters - 32.0mm Ø vs. 32.5mm Ø crystals.

The Bezel, Tachymeter ring and 708x dial are all correct. Simon was very close - and certainly on the right track before. ;)

March 7, 2012 at 10:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

The "Sports 100" logo is missing but the "double wave" is on the caseback? Or what? :)

 

March 8, 2012 at 4:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Arpie at March 8, 2012 at 4:45 AM

The "Sports 100" logo is missing but the "double wave" is on the caseback? Or what? :)

 

No. Sorry, Arpad. None of 7A38-7060's had Sports 100 on their dials, nor 'Double Wave' case-backs.

O.K. Here's your last clue(s). Three photos of a normal 7A38-7060 gold-tone which was listed on eBay in September 2009:


March 8, 2012 at 7:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Arpie
Member
Posts: 202

The bracelet links are not the same. On Lester`s bracelet the "big" links (where the AB022 is stamped) seems don`t have connection point/line underside (maybe it`s not a bent plate but a solid link?? ), whereas on the picture above has a connection line (therefore it`s a bent plate), and also on the front surface there is an extra recess/groove. Hmm?

March 8, 2012 at 9:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Yes, indeed, Arpad. The bracelets on these two versions are slightly different - yet both are 'correct'. ;)

Externally, at first glance, they look very similar, but the 'normal' bracelet p/n G1105G has G1105 stamped on the 'ears' of the end pieces, whereas Lester's has AB022 stamped on the outer end links of the bracelet. If you are familiar with the G1105.E folded link bracelet, then you'll know that the removable adjustment links are held in by the usual flat stamped retaining keepers. But, as you correctly stated, the AB022 bracelet appears to have partly solid links and uses push-pins to retain the adjustment links. You can just make out a push-pin hole in one of the links in Lester's photo. 


But why - and what else is different ? :/

March 8, 2012 at 9:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Sir Alan
Member
Posts: 458

I can only think it is related to the dial, and possibly the day / date wheels.

So, wrong dial?

March 8, 2012 at 10:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

It is the dial, Simon. You were partly correct before, in stating that the 'Suwa' symbol is missing from Lester's 7A38-7060 dial.

Not that you can see it in Lester's photos, but this version does use a different day wheel too. ;)


But there's something else missing besides, which has more significance. :P

March 8, 2012 at 10:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Sir Alan
Member
Posts: 458

JAPAN

March 8, 2012 at 10:53 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Hooray !!! 


Lester's gold tone 7A38-7060 was NOT made in Japan - it's one of the Korean-built versions. 


At the bottom of the dial, a normal gold-tone 7A38-7060 has the following small printing: JAPAN 7A38 708L T and the Suwa symbol.

The Korean built versions have simply: 7A38 708M T - M possibly standing for 'Modified'. No JAPAN; no Suwa symbol (nor Korea).


There was a small 'run' of these - 4 in fact, on eBay, between February 2009 and September 2009. Three came from Korean sellers.


This is the first one, from the February 2009 auction listing, which came on a leather strap:



Here's the second one from July 2009, where you can just make out KOREA SV stamped under the serial number on the case-back:



This is the third one from August 2009. Note the (English) Kanji day wheel. ;)




Here you can see the push-pin holes in the bracelet adjustment links:



Again, KOREA SV stamped on the case-back underneath the serial number, where you would normally find JAPAN A.

I wonder if this is the one Lester bought, and is now trying to sell on WUS. Perhaps I should ask for his serial number. 



This is 'the one that got away', which grieved me, because I lost the eBay auction in a last-second shoot-out. It sold for a hefty $260.

It came up on eBay in the States in September 2009, as a lot in an estate sale, the propery of a late US serviceman, who had served in Korea. It had been kept in a safe for 20 years, and was in virtually mint unworn condition. Note the locally made Teak presentation box:



Note also the AB022 stamping on the end links of the bracelet (and nothing stamped on the ears of the bracelet end pieces).

March 8, 2012 at 11:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Sir Alan
Member
Posts: 458

It's a slow process Paul, but educational ;)

March 8, 2012 at 11:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

Slow indeed; almost hard work, Simon. :P

I thought I'd try writing the thread this way to test the members' powers of observation. :D


So, if and when you see another one of these on eBay, hopefully you'll recognize it for what it is (rather than a fake or franken). ;)

March 8, 2012 at 11:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 13326

I wonder if this is the one Lester bought, and is now trying to sell on WUS. Perhaps I should ask for his serial number.  


Oh how I love a bit of online detective work. I don't think I actually need to ask Lester for the serial number of his watch. 8)


In the second and third paragraphs of his FS advert, he's written:


I'd like to introduce you to my Seiko 7A39-7060 chronograph. As you can see, it's quite a classy looking watch, from one of the first generations of Quartz chronographs. Back in the days (this one was produced in 1987) ....

There is some sort of black 'patina' around one of the pushers, perhaps caused by acidic bodily fluids (sweat) from the previous owner. Probably the pusher that was used most frequently.

This picture shows the black 'patina' I was talking about, around the top right pusher:




Actually it's shown rather better (and looks worse) in this other brightly-lit photo from the August 2009 eBay listing:



Would anybody like to take bets on the serial number of Lester's 7A38-7060 being 752544 ? :D Lester later confirmed by PM. 8)


March 8, 2012 at 11:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

GeorgeClarkson
Member
Posts: 508

This is what I like about "vintage" watch collection: you usually find amazing stories behind some pieces, like the one regarding the late US serviceman in Korea. These objects are really "personal", being in direct contact with the person/s that wore them through the events of their lives.

I am always amazed when I see a memorabilia, like a watch or other personal accessory (excluded clothes and intimate ones) that belonged to people who made the story of the world we live in, particularly if they have been through the major events as WWI and WWII, as well as Viet Nam War.

Mind you, I am not an army man, having done civil service when my time was due, back in Italy. I do not like at all all what is surrounding modern warfare (arms, combat, apparels, you name it). But I have a special fascination, which puzzles and sometimes freaks out people around me (and me too) for all that is related to WWI / II and other wars' memorabilia (well, not exactly all.)

The watch that you didn't manage to get your hands on is something I would like to see in real life, and to hear the story of the serviceman behind it, which could be plainly boring as well as incredibly exciting. Who knows.

Back to subject, it also amazes me your knowledge, and your "detective" skills. If I were you, though, I would try, where and when possible, to know the story of each and every watch I'd own. But I do believe that is maybe the most daunting task ever...

January 9, 2013 at 9:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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