Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

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Forum Home > eBay, LeBonCoin, Mercado Libre, Yahoo Japan, etc. > eBay seller asset stripping - added / subtracted value profiteering

Seiko7A38
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Posts: 12495

Perhaps I spend too much time following eBay auctions for Seiko 7A38's. :/

Because the more time I spend looking at eBay, the more things I see things that make me angry. :mad:

As collectors, we all know how difficult, sometimes impossible, it is to source some of the original Seiko folded link bracelets ....

Hence why so many watches end up being offered on eBay fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets (not all described as such).


Last week a gold-tone 7A38-727A, in reasonable cosmetic condition and still fitted with it's original bracelet, was listed on eBay in UK: 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251276443681

Seiko Chronograph Gold Plated wrist watch-NEEDS REPAIR



A good looking, Seiko Chronograph Gold Plated mans wrist watch. Light cream face with gold plated markers and main hands. Time, day and date work fine BUT NEEDS REPAIR AS STOP WATCH/CHRONOGRAPH NOT WORKING (alternatively could be used as non-chronograph watch). With original gold plated strap and clasp, will fit quite large wrist and adjust down to smaller sizes. Some slight wear on gold plating but in good condition cosmetically. Made in Japan, model 7A38-727A, serial number 700138, size 37mm diameter x 10mm deep.


It sold for a mere £23.00 after 6 bids:



It's a seldom seen 7A38-727x variant and would have made an ideal repair / tinkering project for an enthusiast. 

Unfortunately it was won by a dealer, with no such interest (or apparent capabilities) and an eye for a fast profit. 


June 8, 2013 at 5:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Yesterday, this popped up in my searches:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271219224074


 

Vintage Seiko mans chronograph. 

Model number is 7A38-727A 

Time of day is working but the chronograph is not working. 

Sold as spares or repair..unknown mystery fault. 

Case width is 37 mm.


The seller notes read: “used,scratched and scraped on case and glass..strap missing..plating worn..buttons sticking.”


Refreshing my search, it was was followed less than 10 minutes later:




by this B1405G bracelet - offered by the same seller:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390607708037


 

Seiko mans watch bracelet. 

Removed from a Seiko 7A38-727A chronograph mans watch. 

Length is approx. 165 mm with about 10 mm left on the slider. 

End lug width is 18 mm 

End lugs stamped "B1405.E" 

In generally good used condition,suitable for reuse,signs of use,scratches,slightly dirty..etc..


So, all this scumbag dealer sgb375 has actually managed to do is remove the bracelet - not even bothering to attempt to clean it. 


A search on his current listings reveals this would appear to be his standard modus operandi. 

His most recent listings include a 7T32-7F70 and a 7T42-6A00 both of which have been separated from their original bracelets.




Here's yet another: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-mans-chronograph-watch-spares-repair-panda-dial/271214643091

a 7T32-7C60, ending in about 5 hours time. Description includes: Strap missing, needs a strap fitting. Quel surprise - not. :roll:

Here's it's bracelet: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-mans-watch-bracelet-chrono-type-bracelet-only-/271214644192

The seller notes state: “Strap missing,scratches on the case and glass..lugs are o.k.case bit dirty..

and for the bracelet: “scratched and scraped,links are expanded and worn..slight dirt..fastens o.k.


He is naturally a 'Top Rated Seller', which those of us living in the real world means absolutely **** as far as ethics and much else go.

Total inability / laziness and a lack of any ultrasonic cleaning equipment appear to be additional shortcomings in the case of sgb375. 

He is also registered as a business seller.




Andrew John Smith, for your dis-service to the watch collecting community as a whole, I salute you. 


June 8, 2013 at 5:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

jair1970
Member
Posts: 169

That. Is some shoddy behaviour.

How would you ever expect to succeed in 'business' with such a poor strategy? It baffles.

June 8, 2013 at 4:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Shoddy behaviour - personally, I'd call it lazy, dirty, unethical and worse - Andrew Smith's strategy appears to work. He turned a profit.


Discounting postage, in total, a £16 profit on his initial outlay of £23 for the watch.

Unfortunately there is a loser in this situation. Up until yesterday, the high bidder on both watch head and bracelet auctions was the same person (eBay ID w***d). He's now just left with the bracelet. Quite frankly, if I was him, I'd tell Andrew Smith where to shove it. 


June 17, 2013 at 9:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

As you've probably gathered from the number of similarly themed threads in this forum section, I have a distinct loathing for dealers.

I'm not sure who I despise the most - the many would-be profiteers or the bone idle do-nothing-with-it quick-turnaround merchants. 

I was about to start another separate 'Déjà vu' topic (besides the two we've got running already), but I was sure I'd written about this particularly unsavoury eBay seller sgb375 somewhere before on this forum. It took me a while to find the thread, but it was this one.


The forum's search function doesn't always work as well as it should. When I know I've written stuff, often it doesn't find the results.

A while back I discovered a little tweak in the form of an alternative Google site specific search. You may want to make a note of it.

Basically you type: The text you are looking for (space) site:www.whatever.com  into Google's search bar and hit return. So easy.

Here's the search I used to find this particular topic: Andrew John Smith .... I salute you - most of the phrase I remember writing.


January 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

As I write this, I really don't know who I'm more angry with - Andrew J. Smith - or myself for literally having let him get away with it. :mad:

I belatedly spotted this poorly described eBay auction listing for a Titanium 7A38-7120 by a UK seller the day after Boxing Day:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181286241531

SEIKO TITANIUM CHARCOALGREY 100M SPORTS WATCH



It is is a good condition and good working order. Genuine SEIKO matt titanium mens sport watch.


From the seller's three photos, it patently wasn't in the best of condition, with a scratched bezel and crystal and the chronograph certainly couldn't have been fully functional with the 4 o'clock (reset) pusher stuck fully in, clearly shown in the third photo. :roll:


I placed a bid on it there and then - £49.49, for want of a number and added it to my eBay watching page. I was subsequently outbid. Did think about sniping it, but decided I really didn't need another Titanium 7A38-7120 because I already have an almost mint example.

Perhaps it was seasonal goodwill to all men thing (Bah Humbug), but I actually made a concious decision to leave it for someone else.

That was clearly a mistake in hindsight, because nobody else bid - and it sold for only £50.49 on 28th December:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181286241531




I didn't take much notice of the winning bidder ID, shown as g***3 (4442) at the time and just put it down to a missed opportunity.


January 2, 2014 at 2:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

So you can imagine my intense displeasure when I ran my first eBay search on 'Seiko 7A38' earlier today and found this new listing:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390737591733



Vintage SEIKO TITANIUM mans chronograph. 

Working on the time of day,keeping good time,the stopwatch will start to tick on the start button and will stop on the button but the reset button is stuck. 

Time of day keeps good time. 

Quartz battery powered. 

With the original genuine bracelet. 

Model number is 7A38-7120.


Also: Seller notes: “Scratched and scraped, glass is scratched, buttons are sticking..”




Although the badly scratched crystal doesn't look anything like so bad in his head-on photo, the same 4 o'clock pusher is stuck well in.

This lazy scumbag re-seller has clearly done absolutely NOTHING with the watch - other than to take a fresh set of photos and re-list it.

I suppose we should be grateful that he's left it intact, complete with its original bracelet, if his previous activities are anything to go by.


He may have started it off with a 99p opening bid, but as you can see it's already at £46.00 so he's assured of making a fast profit. 


January 2, 2014 at 3:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

The upshot of this ? Well other than my bitching about it on here, it's prompted me to make a New Year's resolution.

In future, whenever I see any potential bargain 7A38's badly listed on eBay, like this one was - I'm going to nail them ALL ....

Even if I don't actually want the watch for my own collection - Just to prevent them from falling into the hands of dealers.

Where required, I will replace scratched crystals, thoroughly clean the entire watch, grease pushers and seals and re-sell them myself.

The gloves are well and truly off. 

January 2, 2014 at 4:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

fmc000
Member
Posts: 54

Well said Paul. That will make one of the best NY resolutions ever made.

--

My Seiko chronos: SPV002 - SDX008J1 - SFA005J1 - PSZ006P1

January 3, 2014 at 5:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Yes, but the problem with New Year resolutions is remembering to keeping them, Fabio. :P

Meanwhile, I'm just going to add a couple of post-scripts onto this thread, while I remember.


Much to my surprise, that 7A38-7120 didn't make anything like what I might have expected - selling for only £68.61 after 4 bids:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390737591733


I guess the seller got his just deserts - a minimal return for having done absolutely nothing - viz replacing the scratched crystal and sorting the stuck pusher. However, I was gobsmacked by the price he got for a far-from-mint 1980's vintage plastic presentation box:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390737446465


Had that been me, I would have matched it to a suitable watch (it would have been period perfect for that Titanium 7A38-7120) and sold them together. Indeed, back in the days when I was actively buying and selling Seiko 7A38's, I used to chuck one in for free ! :roll:


January 20, 2014 at 1:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

So what price might he have made, if he'd put a little effort into improving that Titanium 7A38-7120 - presuming he is capable ? :|


Well, it just so happens, I'd spotted another just before Christmas on LiveAuctioneers.com:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/22976433_a-titanium-quartz-chronograph-gentlemans-seiko-sports




O.K., perhaps this one was in slightly better clean condition, with less scratching on the bezel, but it still had the usual rubbing wear on the gold plated bracelet ornaments. The lot wasn't particularly well titled, with no mention of the model number in the description either.


The auction was at Fellows in Birmingham, today - and apart from putting in a low-ball bid online, I was also on the phone to them ....

Couldn't believe what this 7A38-7120 finally went for, by comparison, in the circumstances:




Yup - One Hundred and Eighty - double Fellows' estimate - plus there's a 20% buyer's premium to add on top of that !! :o


January 20, 2014 at 2:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Just catching up with my reading over on SCWF - a slightly post in a thread about the Birmingham Watch Fair at the weekend.


http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japanese-watch-discussion-forum/77338-any-birmingham-watch-fair-finds.html#post594066


Posted Yesterday, 07:59 PM by MarkDubya83:


I didn't go to the watch fair but I did snap up a rather tasty looking 7A38-7120 at the Fellows auction in town...
Probably paid a bit over the odds for it but it's in great cosmetic nick and I've not seen one like it elsewhere...

A 'bit over the odds' ? :lol:


January 21, 2014 at 4:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Remember how I started off this thread last year ? 

Perhaps I spend too much time following eBay auctions for Seiko 7A38's. :/

Because the more time I spend looking at eBay, the more things I see things that make me angry. :mad:


Well perhaps I should rephrase that. :P

Maybe what I should have written is: Perhaps I spend too much time investigating the spurious activities of dubious eBay sellers.

But sometimes it is quite good fun putting two and two together. :D

Today, quite by chance, I made another accidental discovery, related to the aforementioned Andrew J. Smith a.k.a, eBay ID sgb375


April 8, 2014 at 12:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

To explain this, I'll need to ramble slightly (well outside the scope of this forum) - but trust me, it is relevant in this instance. ;)

I've repaired a couple of Seiko Kinetics (5J22 and 5M63) for work colleagues. Recently one of them asked me if I'd have a look at an 'old quartz watch' belonging to a friend of his. Sentimental value and all that, but the owner had 'dropped' it. I said I'd have a look at it without any firm promise of fixing it. It turned out to be a 7123-8430 - a 1970's vintage quartz. Except it hadn't just been dropped. :(

Somebody else had obviously had a go at buggering around with it before, because there were bits missing. I was almost at the point of giving it back to him and saying 'No Sorry - it's just not worth my time and effort'. But then I thought I'd have a quick look on eBay to see if I could find a donor. This one came up fairly quickly with my first search on just eBay UK:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371036900110


Vintage SEIMKO mans watch. 

Ticks when I fitted a new battery,but seems to have lost a few hours. 

Sold as FAULTY SPARES OR REPAIR. 

Model number 7123-8430-P. 

Case width is 34 mm. 

Strap missing,standard 18 mm strap would fit. 

Scratched on the glass,case scratched and dirty. 

Ticking now,but probably will stop or lose time again. 

SOLD AS SPARES OR REPAIR..scrap for parts or repair.


Notice anything ? :| Watch head (only) held by open fingers and the woven raffia basket background. :o

Just the same as in my second post:


Seeing as I've got one in pieces on the workbench at the moment, I already knew what the bracelet part number was: Z453.

So I did a quick search on this eBay seller oksik2013 other items. What should be currently listed right underneath but this:




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271443477548


Vintage SEIKO mans watch bracelet. 

Removed from a SEIKO SQ 7123-8430-P. 

End lug width is 18 mm flat style ends. 

Ends signed Z453. 

Overall length is 170 mm. 

Some dirt and scratches. 

Fastens o.k.


Exactly the same modus operandi. Although 'the other' eBay seller sgb375 isn't currently listing any items for sale, if you run through the current offerings listed by oksik2013, you'll find plenty more watch heads that have been parted from their bracelets, which are listed separately - between all the various assorted bits of 'militaria' that 'both' these sellers deal in. Clearly one and the same person, even though they give business addresses that are 60 miles apart.



April 8, 2014 at 1:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Seiko7A38 at June 8, 2013 at 5:13 AM

Perhaps I spend too much time following eBay auctions for Seiko 7A38's. :/

Because the more time I spend looking at eBay, the more things I see things that make me angry. :mad:

As collectors, we all know how difficult, sometimes impossible, it is to source some of the original Seiko folded link bracelets ....

Hence why so many watches end up being offered on eBay fitted with incorrect replacement bracelets (not all described as such).


Perhaps I should stop looking at eBay altogether. :/ Apart from saving me lots of money, it would probably do wonders for my blood pressure. :roll:


I can't say that I've been following the dubious bracelet robbing activities of either eBay seller sgb375 or oksik2013 (a.k.a. Andrew J. Smith) since I last updated this thread, nearly 5 years ago. I suspect he's changed his eBay user ID's again since I fingered him. Either that, or he's carrying on regardless, but deliberately avoiding 7A38's rather than incur my wrath and the adverse publicity which would ensue.


Indeed, I can't think, off the top of my head, where I've seen another instance of this odious malpractice since - not on 7A38's anyway ....


April 4, 2019 at 4:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

That was until yesterday, when I ran a worldwide eBay search on 'Seiko 7A28' and spotted these 2 listings by US eBay seller estatesale44, who has obviously latched onto the same distinctly under-handed 'Get Rich Quick' scheme.


The first listing is for a well-worn partially functional JDM 7A28-7100 head only, which he listed 2 days ago as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of $9.99. FWIW, It's being offered through eBay's dysfunctional GSP programme. 


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293032944137



VINTAGE SEIKO 7A28 7100 A6 SPEEDMASTER JDM CHRONOGRAPH QUARTZ BLUE DIAL WRIST WATCH

Watch is 40.5mm Wide

Watch is Being Sold As Is (for which, read without its bracelet)

Second Hand Works and The 2 Top Dials Work, But Bottom Dial Does Not Work

Also Does Not Keep Time

Being Sold As Needs To Be Fixed or Parts

Any Questions Please Feel Free to ask Thank you


The second, although a 30-day listing, was also published late on Tuesday evening - literally 2 minutes after the 7-day auction listing for watch head - as a Buy-it-Now for $250 !! It is obviously the original p/n NA19A Speedmaster bracelet, which this seller has deliberately removed from the 'head only' 7A28-7100.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293032945227


RARE VINTAGE SEIKO 7A28 7100 JDM QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH SPEEDMASTER BRACELET

Size: 6 3/8" Long Tip to Tip

In Great Condition, Any Questions Please Feel Free to ask Thank you


Only one question: How do unethical profiteering scum like you sleep at night ?


April 4, 2019 at 4:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

J. M. Phipps
Member
Posts: 6

So the "scam" is, they buy a watch with correct bracelet, then separate the bracelet from the head of the watch and sell each separately? Do I understand that correctly?

April 6, 2019 at 3:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Seiko7A38
Site Owner
Posts: 12495

Correct. 

It's not a 'scam' per se. It's within the seller's rights to do whatever he wants. But given the difficulties of obtaining the correct original bracelet, it's just plain unethical.

As James wrote: Is some shoddy behaviour.

Let's say, if in this instance, someone wins the auction for the 7A28-7100 'head only' for a reasonable price. He's then faced with the option of paying an additional $250 on top to get the bracelet which should have come with it in the first place.


Edit: My bad. I hadn't added either of those items to my eBay watching page (constrained for space - already bouncing off the max. 300 limit). Transpires the bracelet has already sold in the early hours of this morning, for $222.50.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293032945227

But the auction listing for the 'head only' from which it was removed, still has 3½ days left to run ! :roll:


April 6, 2019 at 5:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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