Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Seiko7A38 at May 12, 2020 at 3:54 PM

I'll make this as clear as I can ....

I'll write it up in the Heads Up on Yet Another 7A38 Franken thread, presently.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124184945226

Vendo dalla mia collezione privata questo bellissimo orologio in ottime condizioni. 

Seiko Speedmaster Ref. 7a38-7010

Meccanismo al quarzo con batteria nuova perfettamente funzionante.

Cassa in acciaio inossidabile

Cinturino originale in acciaio inossidabile

Privo di scatola e documenti

Spedizione tracciata.

That 7A38-7010 Franken, fitted with the taupe SPORTS 100 logo'd 703L dial (from a stainless 7A38-7020 / -7029), supposedly sold earlier this week (evidently not).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124184945226

Early this morning it was back on eBay again - re-listed, exactly same as before. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124189712072

I'm have trouble keeping up with Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa and his antics.

It looks like he's just ended all his remaining unsold Buy-it-Now listings for 7Axx's (there were about 20, IIRC) as allegedly no longer available and re-listed them all as 7-day auctions. I thought he might have ended that one because of an error in the listing, but he's evidently done exactly the same thing with all the others.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124189712072

With the opening bid price reduced to 300 Euros, that 7A38-7010 Franken / 703L re-dial presents a much more tempting proposition to the unwary mug punter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124190037558

Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa's re-listed 7-day auction for his 7A38-7010 Franken / 703L re-dial ended a few moments ago, selling for 401 Euros after 26 bids. I guess it must have confused more than a few people. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124190037558

This non-running 7A38-7010, which judging by the badly rusted movement, has suffered suffered from catastrophic moisture ingress, was listed yesterday evening, by a Spanish seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 21 Euros. Like many well-worn examples, it's been fitted with a non-original replacement bracelet. However, this one may be the reason for the interest - it's a Seiko p/n B1075S, normally found on the 7A28-7040 / -7049.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264769221020

Reloj Seiko 7A38-7010 Vintage 1983. El estado es Usado. NO FUNCIONA PARA REPARAR O PIEZAS DONT WORK FOR SPARES OR REPAIR ONLY SOLD AS IS DONT WORK!!!!!!!! No RETURN no refund.

The above 7-day Spanish eBay auction for a non-running 7A38-7010, with a badly rusted movement, fitted with a non-original Seiko p/n B1075S bracelet, ended a few moments ago, selling for 158.50 Euros after 36 bids. Presumably somebody must have wanted the bracelet badly. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264769221020

Seiko7A38 at May 3, 2020 at 4:09 AM

This well-worn 7A38-7010, fitted with a short aftermarket replacement bracelet, was listed late yesterday evening, by a Mexican eBay seller, with a 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of $399 US, or the option to make an offer. The upper plate of the 702L dial used in this model is far from being pure black (unlike the sub-dials, which are) - it's best described (as the seller has done) as being dark grey. That said, in his first two head-on photos, his example appears to be badly faded. I suspect he's had it apart, because he's re-fitted one of the sub-dial hands incorrectly. The one with the silver boss should be on the constant seconds sub-dial, not the 30 minute counter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293567173244

Other than having added it to my eBay watching page, I can't honestly say I'd been following the progress of that well-worn 7A38-7010 fitted with a short aftermarket replacement bracelet. Transpires the Mexican eBay seller had made a number of revisions to his listing, including reducing the Buy-it-Now price three times, from his original highly over-optimistic $399 to 'only' $249.

It finally sold early this morning, not for the reduced Buy-it-Now price of $249, but ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293567173244

As revealed by the alternative 'true selling price' link, for a best offer of $205:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewitem&item=293567173244

I'll confess, I'm the buyer here. I've had my heart set on a titanium 7A28-7080, but I know that when I find the right one it may well be out of budget, so I was keeping an eye out for a decent looking example of 7A28 / 7A38. So many even iffy-looking examples are going for $400+ right now, and this one was stated to be running and the cosmetics weren't terrible. I pulled the trigger without slowing down a bit to do my due diligence.

Still, I'm a bit disappointed to find out it's been meddled with a good bit, and I know I'll have some decisions to make regarding a better quality bracelet or strap, though finding an authentic original may be unrealistic. 

So, just how badly did I err? I'll admit when I saw the above, I was momentarily tempted to attempt to cancel the transaction, but it seems that most of the fault is my own for failing to research first.

My apologies if I was overly critical of the watch you've just bought, Mark, especially as it was your first 7Axx. I try to be objective when assessing watches on eBay. In terms of how badly you erred - at least you only paid $205, instead of the Mexican seller's original borderline ridiculous asking price of $399.

My primary concern with it, was the watch's dial appeared to be badly faded in the seller's first two photos. Maybe they were just excessively over-lit. I don' think that I actually said it had been 'meddled with' (although it possibly has). I pointed out that the seller had refitted two of the hands on the wrong sub-dials (by interposing their positions). I assume he may have removed and refitted all the hands, because in his second photo, you can see what appear to be marks on the dial, either side of the central hand stack.

If it's any consolation, the first 7A38-7010 that I bought as a a 'newbie', back in June 2009, had been 'messed about with'. According to my records, in winning the eBay auction, I paid the Israeli seller $232.50 for it, which was a lot of money for a 7A38 back then. Here's the original eBay listing photos, which I've kept:

What they don't show is that all three of the gloss black sub-dials had been marked, where the seller (or his accomplice) had pulled and refitted the hands without using a dial protector. 

Where I would opine that you have erred (even in paying the lower price of $205) for it, is that you've bought a watch that is 'cosmetically challenged'. The external Tachymeter bezel is a prominent feature of the 7A38-701x range and you will find your eye drawn to it. So I'd always recommend buying the best appearing (working) example you can afford. Even now, 10 years and more into my collecting addiction, I still sometimes get it wrong myself.

I may possibly not have owned up to it before, but the most recent 7A38-7010, that I purchased off eBay, was at the beginning of May 2019. It's documented at the bottom of page 9 of this thread, where I wrote ....

(Originally posted by myself on April 27, 2019 at 6:48 AM):

This 7A38-7010, which from what you can discern from the two photos, appears to be in pretty decent well cared for condition, was listed mid-week by a UK eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with a low start opening bid price of £0.99. He evidently doesn't realize what he's got, nor has any idea how to sell it. It's in a job lot pairing with a well-worn gold-tone Avia dress 'Diver'. Both are described as non-runners, but it may just need a new battery.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293062950815

On 24-Apr-19 at 20:55:10 BST, seller added the following information:

Both watches are not running. I have not attempted to fiddle with them as I know nothing about them. So buyers must assume they are not working.

I won the auction, paid the seller £223 and told him to keep the Avia 'Diver'. 

The watch arrived and as I'd hoped, was in very nice cosmetic condition (if a little grubby). I fitted a new battery, but soon noticed that the timekeeping was erratic, poor at best and the chronograph sub-dials didn't always reset to Zero, indicating it was in need of a service. So eventually, a year later, I ended up sending it off to Simon Wilkinson ('Sir Alan') for a complete movement strip, clean and re-lube.

Here's a link to Simon's photos.

So basically, you pays your money and takes your choice - but with any 35-year old secondhand watch (even NOS) purchased off eBay, there is always an element of risk - no matter how well you do your due diligence.

No offense taken, it was an honest assessment and I appreciate the detailed information. For $205, if it runs reliably I'll be happy enough to wear it for a while as I look for the "keeper", and even if I resell it with a corrected provenance I doubt I'll lose too much on it. I will note that the $205 offer was instantly accepted; I can't help but wonder just how low the seller set the "auto accept" threshold.

Assuming the aftermarket bracelet is poor quality and will need to be replaced, are there any readily available options that are worthy? I haven't seen much that's near to the original style. The bullhead-style bracelets on ebay look like they may be reasonable quality, and at least somewhat era-appropriate if not perfectly matched to this particular watch. I know with the shrouded lugs, most typical 20mm bracelets and straps are going to look quite ungainly.

Seiko7A38 at September 28, 2018 at 8:53 AM

So if you've bought yourself a cheap 7A38-7010 'head only' (or are need of some form of wrist attachment, for whatever reason), what do you do ? To answer another of Lolo's questions, from his most recent email, here's a partial copy and paste of an email, that I wrote in reply to another owner back in December 2014 (it's posted in full on page 1 of the 7A38-701A model specific thread).

Originally posted by myself on: December 14, 2014 at 1:30 PM

Thanks for your email. Sorry, I don't have any simple solution for your dilemma.

The Seiko p/n Z1118S bracelet is obsolete and no longer available. Their typical 80's lightweight folded link construction was a major weakness that usually lead to stretching of the U section joining pieces and early failure. Seiko UK ran out of stock years ago. I suspect Seiko USA will be in a similar position.

There are a few similar designed bracelets with 20mm fitment like Seiko p/n's B1424S, B1688S and G1410S, but none of them have exactly the same link section or that silver anodized finish of the original. Again your chances of finding even one of those are pretty remote nowadays - any that appear on eBay are quickly snapped up by collectors for use as substitutes on 7A38-701x's.

I would have suggested a Feiko aftermarket bracelet, but I guess you've already dismissed those.

http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums/topics/show/7821161 

Now here's the rub (pun intended) ....

Mark.

To save repeating myself - the above quote is from a few pages back (page 8).

I believe the repro' Bullhead 'Fishbone' bracelets have also been discussed before, not only here (a 7A38-7010 fitted with one, listed on eBay in January 2018, appears on page 6 of this thread) but also in another thread.

They may be of the correct 20mm lug width fitting, but apart from being the 'wrong design', their end links taper to different widths (to suit the Seiko Bullhead case), so they're going to look a bit incongrous fitted to any Seiko 7Axx case.

This listing, for a well-worn 7A38-7010, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, by a German eBay seller, first appeared late yesterday evening. In theory it's a 10-day auction, with an opening bid price of 111.11 Euros, but by the time it was actually published, it was theoretically already over a day old. Hence no bids have been placed so far.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193635676451

Ich biete einen Seiko 7A38-702L Quartz Chronograph aus den 80ern an. 

Die 7A Modelle von Seiko gelten unter Kennern als die besten jemals gebauten Quarzchronos. Die Werke bestehen komplett aus Metall, auch die Rotoren. Die 7Axx wurden, anders als ihre Nachfolger 7Txx, auf extreme Langlebigkeit und Wartungsfähigkeit ausgelegt. 

Die Uhr hat ein Daydate in Deutsch, des matte Edelstahlgehäuse hat einen Durchmesser von ca. 38 ohne Krone gemessen. 

Feste Lünette mit Tachymeterskala. 

Sicher hat die fast Ü40erin Gebrauchsspuren in Form von moderaten Kratzern an Glas, Gehäuse, Band (die Schließe hat eine Delle) und eine Eigenart: der Chrono startet und stoppt manchmal ab und an irgendwie von selber, ohne daß der Drücker betätigt wird, der Druckpunkt des Start Drückers ist nicht mehr so knackig – es reicht schon ein leichtes antippen des Drückers um den Chrono zu starten -aber nach Stopp / Reset läuft Sie brav wieder normal und stoppt die Zeit zuverlässig. 

Uhrzeit funktioniert gut und genau. 

Blatt, Indizes und Zeiger sind im guten Zustand, dies auch wie die Leuchtmasse, welcher allerdings nur noch sehr schwach leuchtet aus Altersgründen. 

Das Seiko (Bandanstoß 20mm) Stahlband passt bis ca. HGU 20 -21cm. 

Die Uhr kommt in der Original Seiko Plastik-Box aus den frühen 90ern. 

Technische Daten

Quarzchronograph mit 15 Rubinen/Lagersteinen, 4 Schrittmotoren und einer Ganggenauigkeit von 15s / Monat

Messbereich: 1/10s bis 30min

Testfunktion des Chronos durch längeres Drücken des unteren rechten Drückers

Trimmer zur Feinjustierung

Uhr kommt wie abgebildet mit Box ohne Ständer. 

Die BDA Kopie in englisch kann ich gerne per Email als PDF senden falls benötigt! 

Die Uhr ist im getragenen Zustand mit, Tragespuren - Sie bieten auf keine Neuuhr ! 

Details siehe Fotos. Keine Papiere.

Privatverkauf unter Ausschluss von jeglicher Gewährleistung, allerdings versichere ich den beschriebenen Zustand der Ware! 

Versand auf Risiko, Kosten und Gefahr des Käufers !! KEINE RÜCKNAHME! Kein Paypal ! No PayPal.

The above 10-day German eBay auction listing for a well-worn 7A38-7010, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, ended this morning, when it was sold for an undisclosed best offer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193635676451

This well-worn 7A38-7010, fitted with a cheap leather strap in place of the original bracelet, was listed yesterday evening by a German eBay seller, as a 7-day auction with an opening bid price of 110 Euros.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233705071950

Seiko 7A38-7010 Chronograph, Schwarzes Blatt, Intakt. Zustand: Gebraucht. Versand mit DHL Paket bis 2 kg. 

Die Uhr läuft, alle Funktionen lassen sich auslösen und nullt korrekt. Die Drücker funktioniern und haben einen „Knackpunkt“. Eine Reinigung der Drücker wird empfohlen, ebenso dürfte das Uhrwerk eine Reinigung vertragen, da in den letzten 15 Jahren sicherlich keine durchgeführt wurde. Auch die Lunette hat Kratzer. Mit einem neuen Glas und ein wenig Pflege dürfte sie aber wieder schön werden. Das Originalband ist nicht dabei. Das vorhandene Lederband ist von sehr einfacher Qualität. Die Uhr hat deutliche Gebrauchsspuren insbesondere das Glas ist zerkratzt.

The above 7-day German eBay auction for a well-worn 7A38-7010, fitted with a cheap leather strap, ended a few moments ago, selling for 162 Euros after 3 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233705071950

However, I suspect that may not be the last we've seen of it. If I'm not mistaken, the encrypted winning bidder ID s***e (724) belongs to a certain German profiteering eBay re-seller, who regularly deals in such 'lesser' examples.

This 7A38-7010, in average worn condition, was listed earlier this afternoon, by a German eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 159 Euros, with the option to make a offer. According to the seller's description, he deliberately removed the bracelet to facilitate better photography.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264885911471

Angeboten wir ein Seiko Quartz Chronograph 7A38-7010 aus dem Jahre 1983. Da diese Uhr nur für einen Sammler interessant sein dürfte, muss ich nicht weiter auf die Spezifikationen dieser kleinen Uhrenlegende eingehen. Die Uhr wurde 1984 von mir in einem Bremer Uhrenfachgeschäft gekauft und wurde viele Jahre getragen. Die Uhr verfügt neben der Datumsanzeige über eine Anzeige der Wochentage in den Sprachen dtsch. / engl. Die Uhr läuft beinahe sekundengenau, leider versagt der 1/10 S. Zeiger seit dem letzten Batteriewechsel seinen Dienst. Die Uhr wird mit dem Original Armband verkauft, das nur zum besseren photographieren abgenommen wurde.

This 7A38-7010, in average worn condition, was listed earlier this afternoon, by a German eBay seller, as a 7-day auction, with an opening bid price of 159 Euros, with the option to make a offer. According to the seller's description, he deliberately removed the bracelet to facilitate better photography.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264885911471

Angeboten wir ein Seiko Quartz Chronograph 7A38-7010 aus dem Jahre 1983. Da diese Uhr nur für einen Sammler interessant sein dürfte, muss ich nicht weiter auf die Spezifikationen dieser kleinen Uhrenlegende eingehen. Die Uhr wurde 1984 von mir in einem Bremer Uhrenfachgeschäft gekauft und wurde viele Jahre getragen. Die Uhr verfügt neben der Datumsanzeige über eine Anzeige der Wochentage in den Sprachen dtsch. / engl. Die Uhr läuft beinahe sekundengenau, leider versagt der 1/10 S. Zeiger seit dem letzten Batteriewechsel seinen Dienst. Die Uhr wird mit dem Original Armband verkauft, das nur zum besseren photographieren abgenommen wurde.

Yesterday evening, the German eBay seller ended the above 7-day auction listing for a 7A38-7010 as no longer available, cancelling the sole bid (for 159 Euros) in the process. Presumably it was sold off eBay in response to a 'back door' offer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264885911471

Seiko7A38 at May 12, 2020 at 3:54 PM

I'll make this as clear as I can ....

I'll write it up in the Heads Up on Yet Another 7A38 Franken thread, presently.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124184945226

Remember this salutory warning (from the bottom of page 11) ? Or indeed the full details of the Italian eBay listing for that incorrectly re-dialed 7A38-7010 'Franken' which followed at the top of this page. Seems, unbeknown to me at the time, there may well have been even more reason to run away. 

Earlier this afternoon, the same Italian eBay seller ervin.pepa listed a 702L dial, which has come from a 7A38-7010, that has evidently been ravaged by a severe battery acid leak. Given the extremely poor condition, he's asking an absolutely ridiculous 'pie-in-the-sky' Buy-it-Now price of 80 Euros. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124406909759

Quadrante Seiko 7a38. La condizione "Usato". Spedito con Pacco ordinario standard.

The clue is in the part number on the Seiko dial packet he's ironically packaged it in.

That 7A38-7010 'Franken' was fitted with a Seiko p/n 7A38 703LX99L dial. 

This 7A38-7010 in average well-worn condition was posted For Sale on Instagram earlier this afternoon, by an Italian dealer. Unusually, for this platform, he's actually stated his asking price - 290 Euros. It seems a more common practice to just write 'DM for information'. Looking at the overall condition in his photos, I'd opine that he's pushing his luck, but over the last couple of hours his post has attracted 100 'Likes', so who knows.