Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers
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| Forum Home > eBay, LeBonCoin, Mercado Libre, Yahoo Japan, etc. > Clockwork Orange - 7A38-7020 Technicolor dial - Hurts my eyes | ||
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
I used to like to think that over the last couple of years, we'd created enough topics in this forum section to cover most eventualities. Under normal circumstances, if deemed worthy of flagging, I might have added my comments on such a watch to this existing thread: Latest mis-matched hotch-potch 7Axx spotted on eBay / Yahoo.jp After all, the first line of that particular thread begins: And yet another thread - a category for watches that aren't exactly blatant Frankens .... just not quite as they should be. But No. This 'Orange Monster' really does deserve its own separate thread. Couldn't quite believe my eyes this morning, when I first clapped eyes on it. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262255454819
     Vivid indeed !! | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
But forgetting, for the moment, the garish orange dial - and ignoring the seller's utterly bnllsh!t description of the watch .... Replete with multiple false claims of authenticity, verified by a master watchmaker (presumably a partially sighted or retarded one) .... What we are actually looking at is one very tired example of a stainless 7A38-7020 SAA009J that has been heavily re-brushed and over-polished. The amount of stretch present in the bracelet links gives a good indication how well worn this watch was to start with. The grossly over-polished bezel isn't quite properly aligned with the watch case. It's also been fitted with a replacement crystal - thicker than the original 1.6mm, with a large polished bevelled edge, which is what's causing that distortion around the Tachymeter scale. Apart from the gaudy colour, note also that the dial's scabby-looking hour batons and 3, 6 and 9 marks are devoid of lume pips. Even the bosses of the hour and minute hands have been over-polished - removing too much of their original white paint. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
The $64 question is: How did they achieve that garish orange dial with black printing (and black sub-dials) ?
The dial has the correct (partial) 703L part number to the left of the 5 o'clock baton (which you'd expect to find on all 7A38-702X's) .... but here's the Taupe coloured 703LX99L dial (black sub-dials) you'd normally find in a stainless 7A38-7020 - with white printing !
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
If it's a (complete) re-paint it's a very good re-paint. I suspect however, that it's more likely a re-paint of the light grey upper plate of 703LXN18 dial (as used in a two-tone 7A38-7020) .... or possibly of the gold upper plate of the 703LXG18 dial (as used in the two-tone 7A38-702A/H) - both of which have black printing. Then with their dial plates split - and re-using the lower black sub-dial plate from the original stainless 7A38-7020 703LX99L dial. Pretty much as I did with my 7A38-7020 Franken, a few years back (except they've used the stainless batons, rather than gold plated):
But instead of leaving the upper plate in a standard (albeit slightly faded) Seiko colour, they've sprayed it with clear orange lacquer. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
This US eBay seller VividLily certainly seems to have a thing about orange (and other non-original brightly coloured) dials. I had a quick scroll through their other current listings and found these - all with dials of suspiciously similar hues of orange: All are variously described as 'Restored' and 'Authentic' - and that was just in the first 5 pages !! | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
I also did a quick google seach on VividLily, expecting to find a few adverse comments on other watch forums. Here's a short thread from WristSushi: http://wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/4758/seller-vividlily-on-ebay - and quote: Many months ago I offered him $100 on the purple painted dial he claims is original. I was going to do the same today but I'm blocked. They're briefly mentioned in a thread on the Omega forum: http://omegaforums.net/threads/polished-watches.29169/ - and quote: There's a market for that kind of watch. Here are some Omegas from Vividlily. Many have repainted dials, most have been polished and/or replated. Not for all tastes..... But apart from those two, surprisingly I didn't find much else. | |
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 Member Posts: 568 |
OH NO | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
If not 'a law against it', there is this form of recourse, Don: Surprisingly again - only one complaint registered. In the meantime, all we can do as 7Axx enthusiasts, is flag it up - and maybe wind the seller up a bit.
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
This orange dialed 7A38-7020 may have been the reason why VividLily first came up on my personal radar, but it's clear that this is a well established large scale operation. They've been selling on eBay since June 2010 and currently have over 2000 items (mostly watches and equally garish rings) listed and a feedback rating of over 10,800*. So I decided to do a bit of online detective work. There's a clue to their identity provided in the link in my previous post. Further down you'll find documented eBay correspondence between the complainant and seller, dating back to May 2014. The seller's eBay ID at that time was not VividLily but LimcorInc. Indeed you can see they changed their eBay ID in June 2014 (possibly as the result of this complaint, or other negative feedback): http://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=vividlily
Once you've made the Limcor Inc. connection, it's not difficult to track down their associated companies:
The registered proprietor of all three being one Rajiv Agrawal - a name of Asian Indian origin. As borne out by his Linkedin profile:
*Of that 10,800 Feedback rating 4000+ can probably be accounted for by their sales of Tunsgsten Carbide wedding rings @ $17.99 ! | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
So where am I headed with this, you may well be asking yourself ? Although the Item Location of this watch (and many others) is stated as Beverly Hills, California, United States, the shipping part of the description states 'Our packages are shipped right to your door from our offices in Los Angeles, CALIFORNIA'.
The registered offices of Limcor Inc. (and other associated companies) are 12 miles away from Beverly Hills in Downtown LA. See: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18904247/606-S-Olive-Street-Los-Angeles-CA/ - and this current office lease listing
Although Limcor Inc. rent an office suite in 606 South Olive Street, LA, I suspect this may be something of 'a shop front'. Note that one of the associated companies also owned by Rajiv Agrawal, LK Imports shares the same registered address. And where's he likely importing these watches from ? I'll give you one guess - India. Home of the garishly re-painted watch dial. Whereas it's not a direct reference to watches, but the other part of his business - diamond rings, I found this on QJM's website: http://www.qjmcorp.com/aboutus.htm QJM Corp. was formed in 1994 by Rajiv Agrawal and Meenu Agrawal. Rajiv and Meenu are the owners of L.K. Imports, a highly respected diamond importer based in Los Angeles with buying offices in Bombay. (Bombay was re-named Mumbai in 1995). Funnily enough, there's also a thread on WristSushi about Limcor: http://wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/4195/limcorinc-on-ebay Quotes include: That's kinda what I thought, there are some colorful dials that I've never seen before. I'm guessing, that this seller has ties to somewhere overseas. He claims to be from Beverly Hills... a 15 minutes drive for me so he said they come in from out of the country. Don't trust him one bit. FAKE! The way everyone else is taking about this person I will make sure to avoid him like the plague. I'd concur that last quote is a sound bit of advice for any prospective purchasers. | |
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 Member Posts: 568 |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
I don't need to, Don - I've seen plenty of Seiko 5's with garishly re-painted dials from India on eBay before. I'd just never really expected to see a 7A38 with a re-painted dial. Watch dial re-furbishing has been going on in India for decades. These are one of the better exponents of the art - funnily enough based in Mumbai: http://www.dialrepaint.com/
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 Member Posts: 158 |
I saw this also and had to do a double take, great investigative Sherlock, very cleverly done but beggars the question why, as the majority of folk who like these watches would know virtually all the models especially with this great site to research. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
It beggars the question why on a number of counts, Phil.
The obvious answer: Their intention being to produce an eye-catching ‘One of a Kind’ watch (for a minimal cost) in the hope of snaring an unwary punter, who doesn’t recognise it for what it is – and making a fat profit. Regardless of the amount of work that may have gone into it, skilled labour costs in India are a fraction of what they’d be in the States. Hence the ‘Beverly Hills shop front’.
But then why go to the trouble of re-painting the dial (whichever technique they used) and spoil the job by not bothering to properly clean up the hour batons and then failing to re-lume them and the 3, 6, 9 hour marks ? Otherwise, it really is a pretty damned good job. The only other minor things that let the dial down are the middle prong of the E of the SEIKO logo is bent and the tiny printed ‘T’ (for Tritium) is missing from above the ‘24’ mark.
Then again, why build the dial into such an obviously well worn case and bracelet ? Answer again – minimum cost and maximum profit. | |
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 Member Posts: 158 |
Reported as fraudulent description | |
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 Member Posts: 568 |
Good for you Phil, the very idea of putting a ($75.00 at most) dial on a $ 250.00 (at most) Seiko and then asking a Grand for it | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
If you scroll to the very bottom of the listing, you'll find the Q&A's:
Which isn't strictly true:
Purely on the off-chance, they might have been responsible for the dial work, I'd also emailed www.dialrepaint.com. They replied: Hi Paul, No this dial is not repainted by us, in fact I feel it's an original dial and not a repainted one. This may or may not be right but just said what I think. Best regards Dharmesh (partner) Swiss Watch Dial Works. | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
OMG - they're breeding ! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=262255454819
So unless the second one has a different colour dial, this bit of their description no longer applies !
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 Member Posts: 24 |
The 'C' in Chronograph and '1' in Sports 100 both appear to indicate that the artwork is slightly off - so I'd probably agree that it's a redial. I'd like to know who they used though - the quality and crispness of the print is pretty incredible compared to most dial refinishing companies! | |
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 Site Owner Posts: 14428 |
This patently less-than-forthright eBay seller VividLily clearly has no qualms about resorting to other dubious under-handed tactics to draw attention to their over-polished re-painted wares. On 1st February, the quantity of these 'One of a Kind' 7A38-7020(s) was mysteriously reduced back to one again. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=262255454819
Then yesterday evening, the 30-day listing was ended early because the item was allegedly no longer available: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262255454819
No great surprise then, that it was re-listed less than 10 minutes later: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272122834174 Are we seeing shades of Martinachertok style shenanigans already ? Thinks to self. Shall I reserve the first post at the top of the next page to create a summary of their subsequent re-listings ? Edit: Now that they'd ended that first listing I thought I'd take the opportunity to check GoofBid's eBay Best Offer History tool. VividLily certainly seem to get plenty of offers, but not many are accepted.
There were actually only 3 offers made against the 7A38-7020: one for $99; another for $20 and my '1% lowball' for $9.99 ! | |
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It's certainly 'One of a Kind' - and not one I'll forget in a hurry ! 
now he is doing 7A's. I have known about him for some time. While searching "vintage Seiko". He sells a common 17 jewel Seiko 5 for $599.00 (worth at the most $75.00) and some fool buyer leaves happy feedback. 
Well done Paul ! Now do a search on Ebay for "Seiko Watch"---(used)--- and now see how many colored dialed watches come up from India 
I guess it was just a matter of time. 
Let's hope we don't see too many more pop up.
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