Seiko 7A38 - by the numbers

Here's yet another instance of an undisclosed non-original bracelet fitted to a stainless 7A38-7190 and another case of Déjà Vu. 

I spotted this listing not long after it appeared on eBay Italy, early yesterday evening, but was still pre-occupied at work, so didn't take a screen print at the time. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321741182639

But I did think to email it to myself as a reminder, to write it up later on.

As you can see, it originally also had a Buy-it-Now option for 159 Euros  - before that was killed by the first bid placed. 

The Italian eBay seller's description makes no mention of the (pretty obvious) incorrect replacement bracelet fitted:

Buonasera, metto in vendita questo Seiko 7A38 7190, in condizioni estetiche come da foto e perfettamente funzionante: ogni pulsante funziona come deve (compreso il pulsante split a ore 10) e tutti i contatori azzerano perfettamente. Il numero seriale lo colloca al 1986. Il pezzo non necessita di molte presentazioni, essendo il 7A38 il primo movimento analogico al quarzo del mondo e uno dei più pregiati e affidabili, ancora oggi, dopo circa trent'anni. _____________

Astonishing Seiko chrono 7A38 7190, each button running correctly and resetting to zero. FOR OTHER PICS PLEASE ASK ;-)

The case of Déjà Vu ? 

Well, this very same 7A38-7190 was listed and sold on eBay Germany for 102 Euros at the beginning of the month:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371295184038

The reason I didn't post it in this thread before (apart from being pretty obvious) was that the previous seller mosul12 clearly stated in his description that it was a non-original bracelet, but fitted a with Seiko clasp:

As for the current  Italian eBay seller's offer of further photos on request. Don't bother asking. He's lazily re-used the previous seller's second image. Instead, click on this link to the original eBay listing, where you'll find 4 other high resolution images. Pretty it ain't. 

In case anyone needs reminding of how the correct original p/n B1405S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7190 looks (for the nth time).

It's sometimes not a matter of what devious eBay sellers write in their listing descriptions, but more what they don't state, or how they say it. Like not only has this 7A28-7040 obviously been bead blasted, but it's also fitted with an incorrect style replacement bracelet. No amount of bead blasting is going to hide the fact that apart from that nice matt finish it also actually looks pretty knackered. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261885115872

Seiko Quartz Chronograph 7A28-7040 Black dial in stainless steel with a Seiko band (the same style as the original strap, but it's origin is unknown).

Hailed as the worlds first quartz analogue chronograph. Features a 15 jewel movement with a newly installed Renata 395 battery. All gaskets replaced & silicone greased for improved sealing.

All time and chronograph operations are functional. Buttons are nice and crisp and function as you would expect. The rotating bezel is tight with no play - the crystal was recently replaced so is in new condition; the bezel insert was also upgraded to a new 'Yokobies' insert (the original OEM bezel insert can be included in the package if requested). Features a Tachymeter subdial. This watch is date coded to February 1983.

Seems like you have to ask the question. 

Next question: Couldn't you find any better matching bracelet that knackered old thing ?

For anyone in doubt what the correct silver anodised finish and p/n B1075S bracelet on a 7A28-7040 should look like - here's mine:

Crikey ! Has it really been over a year since I last added an update to this much-viewed thread ? 

I guess in the interim, there've been lots more 7Axx's fitted with non-original bracelets - presumably too obvious to bother mentioning.

But it would be remiss of me to let this next one pass without flagging it up, because it's fairly subtle and could deceive an unwitting potential buyer. To corrupt an old saying; all that sparkles is not necessarily correct and original. 

This two-tone 7A38-7240 was listed on eBay yesterday, by a UK seller with an optimistic Buy-it-Now price of £150, although they beg to differ, stating: Please note this watch is set at a reasonable price for this popular model so no silly offers please!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222244930665

Gents Two Tone Seiko Quartz Chronograph Date Day Cal 7A38- 7240 Watch for Sale 

White Dial with tri compact dials for hours minutes and seconds with quick set date and date indicators (in French and English) 

Gold hands seconds hand and markers and outer tachymeter 

New battery just inserted - working but not sure if all functions working exactly as they should not sure how to test but all sub dials working 

Integrated stainless steel deployment bracelet 

40mm with crown 39mm without 42mm lug to lug and 11mm depth approximately 

Watch in good condition please note some light scratches and marks to case 

Case and bracelet cleaned 

Please note this watch is set at a reasonable price for this popular model so no silly offers please! 

As with all used watches I do not guarantee water resistance. 

All viewings welcomed as is cash on collection in Ashby de la Zouch UK 

All paypal transactions must be payed for within 24 hours of auction end. 

The photos form part of the offer so please study carefully before bidding as I will not accept returns unless not as described 

All non payers will be reported no excuses 

Buyers with less than 10 feedback scores contact me before bidding as your bid may be cancelled 

I ship to Europe North America Japan and Australia, any other destinations ask or your bid could be cancelled 

International bidders welcome, postage applies to standard destinations, if you live in a non standard postal destination contact me to ask for costs 

Any questions contact by email on ebay or 07977495964 phone or text Gill.

It may look a reasonably tidy example, but the bracelet fitted is partially a wrong un ! 

I say 'partially', because the (plain) end pieces, which are stamped G1285.E on their 'ears' are correct for a 7A38-7240 - as could well be the 5 adjustment hole SQ clasp from the original p/n G1285C bracelet. The clue as to the origin of the incorrect bracelet fitted comes from the seller's photo of the case-back. The bracelet end links are stamped with another different part number - B1652.E, making this a p/n B1652C bracelet off a 7T32-7A00. Funnily enough, this bracelet is an integrated design / fit on the 7T32.

Here's what the correct / complete p/n G1285C bracelet on a 7A38-7240 should look like.

Simon's wrist shot (of his 7A38-7240, which he sold a couple of years ago) is clearer than mine.

As regards the seller's claim that their watch's case and bracelet has been cleaned (half-heartedly) ....

Check out the previous owner's DNA that's still left around the pushers and between the bracelet links. 

I note that less than 2 hours after my post, the eBay seller has subsequently revised their listing. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemRevisionDetails&item=222244930665

Not by making any statement about the incorrect bracelet fitted, but simply swapping 6 of the 10 original uploaded photos:

I'm not sure what they hoped to achieve by the first 5 (possibly to show that they've since cleaned the bracelet properly) but their new photo of the case-back, which doesn't quite show the other set of (B1652.E) bracelet part number stampings, clearly indicates an attempt to cover up their deception. 

Caveat Emptor, as always, Gentlemen. 

I note that the eBay seller has since ended the listing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222244930665 - the reason given being ....

I strongly suspect that it still is available.  Perhaps a better, more honest choice of reason for ending the listing might have been:

   Instead of throwing toys out of pram, eh, Gill ? 

No great surprise that the watch re-appeared on eBay later yesterday afternoon - now offered by Gill's 'partner in crime' jonetec1, who is clearly a dealer in used watches, as opposed to allthatsparkles69 who predominantly deals in secondhand jewellery.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272371419880

The selection of photos are the same as included in the previous revised listing, but in a slightly different order. Without bothering to check it word for word, the ill-informed description (note for example, the repetition of 'tri compact' as opposed to tri-compax) appears to be the same, save for one additional paragraph which makes a veiled reference to the incorrect bracelet fitted:

Needless to say, this additional pathetic paragraph is in itself in violation of data protection laws and eBay's terms and conditions. But if you really want to go there, John, I can always publish the IP address and email address that attempted (and failed) to register on this forum yesterday afternoon, complete with screen print of your location and activity log. 

Here's a bit of a naughty one, listed overnight by a US eBay seller - a fairly common stainless 7A38-7289, fitted with a rather unusual choice of non-original Seiko bracelet. It should be pretty obvious to most people, but ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262680907164

Seiko built the first analog quartz chronographs in the early 1980s, using four tiny stepper motors to power the hour and minute hands, the tenth-of-a-second register dial, the 30-minute register, and the constant seconds sub-dial. The7A38 also included a day and date feature. These amazing chronographs could also do "split timing" using the button at the 11 o'clock position to time a second simultaneous event. Highly visible white dial has silver trim around the sub-dials and the pencil-style hands are highly readable against the background.

Stainless steel case and original stainless steel bracelet show swirls and a few scratches, but the chronograph is in good working condition and all functions operate flawlessly. The 7A chronographs were considered revolutionary in their day and many Seiko experts think they surpass many of the company's later chronographs in quality and features. We will include a reprint of the instruction manual so that the new owner will be able to appreciate the Seiko's amazing capabilities.

It may be an original Seiko stainless steel bracelet, but it's not original to this watch. I can't see any part numbers stamped on the joining tubes, but from the hinged link construction and Speedmaster clasp, I'd hazard a guess that it's a p/n AA58A (modified version of p/n B1075S) used on the JDM 7A28-7040. Indeed it might be worth purchasing for someone looking for that particular bracelet.

For those who don't know what the correct original p/n B1627S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7289 should look like (and I can't believe there are that many) .... Here's a recent wrist shot of one I built from a salesman's sample case and NOS bracelet:

I suppose I ought to flag this one up. Although it's pretty obvious once you check all the seller's photos, that first head-on shot looks quite appealing, so is likely to catch out an unwary punter. This stainless 7A38-7029, listed in the early hours of this morning by a US eBay seller, is fitted with an incorrect replacement Seiko bracelet. It's the commonly found p/n Z1357S - as can be seen in the seller's 4th photo. The seller makes no mention of the bracelet in his description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162403957532

Selling a Seiko 7A38-7029 from my personal collection. It is in working condition with a battery that is less than a year old. All functions of the watch work properly, however the upper left pusher can be sticky sometimes. I never really used this pusher in the first place as it seems to be a "pause" button while the chronograph is running. The upper left pusher starts/stops the chronograph and the bottom left pusher resets it. The crown is located on the bottom right of the dial and functions as it should. It is easy to set the time as well as the day and date functions. This is a vintage watch but to my knowledge it is in very good condition considering it's age. Box and papers are not included, the watched will be shipped without them but will be properly protected. Item will be shipped within 2 business days upon receipt of payment. Happy bidding!!

For those newbies who don't know what the correct original Seiko p/n B1171S bracelet looks like, here's an old library photo:

Two for the price of one ? Or perhaps not in this case. 

This job lot pairing of a stainless 7A38-7270 and 7A38-7280 was listed earlier this evening by an Italian eBay seller.

Both watches are fitted with non-original bracelets. That on the 7A38-7280 may be Seiko but I can't quite read the p/n stamping.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162426078288

Coppia di seiko 7a38. 

Nero 7a38-7270 

Bianco 7a38-7280 

Perfettamente funzionanti, al quarzo, senza box ne tag.

Ever get that sense of Déjà Vu ?  I do, all the time - particularly when I see the same mis-represented crap coming up on eBay. 

This 7A38-7080 with the black chome coating worn from its bezel rim, fitted with a non-original bracelet, which was listed yesterday evening by an Italian seller, rang alarm bells straight away. The seller's user ID rolmontan0 might be new, but their location of Ancona and the messy format of the description looked all too familiar.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142351160882

"""""""SEIKO " GIUGIARO MODELLO GIUGIARO SPORTS 100

BATTERIA NUOVA

BEN FUNZIONANTE SIA LA PARTE DALLA CRONOGRAFIA ,,DATA ,,GIORNO ,,ORE ,,MINUTI,SECONDI ..

VETRO MINERALE OTTIMO

CINTURINO ORIGINALE SEIKO IN PVD.

DIAMETRO ESCLUSA LA CORONA 40.00 MM

FONDELLO A VITE CON RF.7A38-7080

OROLOGIO RISALENTE ANNI 1980

L'OROLOGIO VIENE INVIATO SENZA SCATOLA NE DOCUMENTI

PER GUARDARE MEGLIO LE FOTO BASTA FARE DOPPIO CLICK SULLA FOTO

BUONA FORTUNA NELLE MIE ASTE

OGETTO VINTAGE

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%RARE VINTAGE WATCH

"" "" "" "SEIKO" GIUGIARO

GIUGIARO SPORTS MODEL 100

NEW BATTERY

BEN WORKING BOTH THE PART BY chronography,, DATE DAY,,,,,, HOURS MINUTES, SECONDS ..

MINERAL GLASS EXCELLENT

ORIGINAL SEIKO STRAP IN PVD.

EXCLUDING CROWN DIAMETER 40.00 MM

BOTTOM SCREW RF.7A38-7080

DATING BACK CLOCK YEAR 1980

THE CLOCK IS SENT WITHOUT BOX OR DOCUMENTS

LOOK FOR BETTER PHOTOS DO JUST DOUBLE CLICK ON PHOTO

GOOD LUCK IN MY AUCTIONS

The same watch has featured in this thread on 3 prior occasions: in March and June 2104 (on page 7) and May 2015 (page 8).

The seller previously used eBay ID's: giacomitowatch, remotime2014 and leonius_it. See partial quote from page 7 below ....

Seiko7A38 at June 21, 2014 at 4:05 AM

Seiko7A38 at March 22, 2014 at 2:08 PM

I wasn't quite sure where to post this one. The Craziest Prices thread or George's 'Are Italians Crazy?' thread in the Members Lounge.

Or here - because although the seller has done his best to obsure the fact in his photos, the watch is clearly fitted with a non-original rubber strap. Listed on eBay Italy earlier this week, with some lunatic bidding already, given the overall condition - certainly NOT NOS:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111303996148

It's back again. 

In fact it never went away. This well-worn 7A38-7080 has been re-listed quite a few times (in different formats: stupidly high Buy-it-Now prices and blatantly shilled auctions) by at least three different eBay ID's - but all based in Ancona, Italy. Oh dear, what a giveaway. 

The latest iteration is now fitted with an incorrect replacement bracelet, with gold plated ornaments, instead of the rubber dive strap:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281366355688

I'm not going to bother to attempt to reproduce the messy format of the listing, with clickable images interleaved between the text.

Needless to say, it's almost exactly the same as the first one, but with different photos. The serial number is the same 451815.

A 7A38 and multiple-ID'd seller(s) to be avoided at all costs. 

.... and of course the case-back serial number 451815 still matches:

Posted by Pip (as a multiple Quote & Reply of my previous post - now deleted) on April 23, 2017 at 8:33 PM:

Bloody hell I'm glad I found this forum. That was on my watch list and I was debating whether to bid or not and decided to check the model number here' lol and behold several threads about this very serial number! Needless to say I won't be bidding now...

Pip

Well, even if Pip actually refrained, a few others did bid on that eBay auction. It ended on 26th April, with the watch theoretically selling for 253 Euros after 49 bids. Not a particularly remarkable price, but certainly more than it was really worth, given the worn condition and non-original bracelet. 11 of those 49 bids were placed by the winning bidder, but there wasn't any obvious evidence of shill bidding, so I didn't bother commenting on it at the time.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142351160882

However, it came as no great surprise to me when I saw it had been re-listed yesterday evening. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142372592043

It clearly didn't make enough that time around (for the seller).  Hence my earlier comment (from June 2014):

In fact it never went away. This well-worn 7A38-7080 has been re-listed quite a few times (in different formats: stupidly high Buy-it-Now prices and blatantly shilled auctions) by at least three different eBay ID's - but all based in Ancona, Italy. Oh dear, what a giveaway.

Well I can guarantee that I didn't bid on that one after seeing the info above. I did buy another one which I'd post on here but I'm a bit nervous that your flamethrower would come out!

This only average condition stainless 7A38-7190, fitted with an incorrect replacement Seiko bracelet was listed earlier this afternoon by a UK eBay seller. From their tightly cropped listing photos, which show very little of the bracelet links, it's almost as if they're deliberately trying to conceal the fact. If I'm correct in my identification, it's a Seiko p/n Z044, which would normally be found on the much older 6139-7060 model. For photos of the Z044 bracelet in it's normal fitting, see this thread on SCWF.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332227693291

Gents Seiko Quartz chronograph in full working order and in box

100% Genuine

Please note that this watch is on sale in our shop and can be taken off at any time

We are on holiday between the 28th May until the 3rd June so any purchases made in that time frame will be posted out on our return

Has all genuine parts and some slight marking on the back

Model number 7A38-7190

Seriel number 7N0359

Has been fully serviced, cleaned and polished by our in house fully qualified, time served watch repairer

Payment by PayPal or cash on collection within 7 days of the listing ending

Postage to UK - free by special delivery

Postage to worldwide - £10 by International tracked and signed for if available

Only serious bidders please no time wasters

Good luck and thanks for looking.

Not only is the bracelet wrong, but the box is a fairly modern Seiko and the watch case has been very poorly re-finished.

If you don't know what the correct p/n B1405S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7190 should look like, either scroll back up to the top of this page, or read Fratello Watches' #TBT Seiko 7A38 Chronograph article. It's still flawed but the photos are pretty good. 

I suppose I ought to mention this one, simply because at first glance, it almost looks too right. This two-tone 7A38-7020, fitted with a non-original replacement Seiko bracelet, was listed by US eBay seller geona4321 in the early hours of this morning and already has a bid at the opening bid price of $99.99.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391808854309

Hello here is a nice Seiko Sports 100 7A38-7020 Men's Two Tone Watch. Watch works and keeps time. All of the chronograph functions work and it reset to zero. The watch is used but in great condition. The crystal is nice with minor scratches. Case and band are nice but have scratches from age. Check out the pictures and don't forget to super-size them. The band is original and will fit up to a 7.75 inch wrist. Watch has a fresh battery and keeps time. I have more cool watches so Check out my other items!

The replacement bracelet could almost be described as a perfect match. It has a similar amount of wear to the gold plated bezel and may well have been fitted to this watch for many years - but it certainly isn't the watch's original bracelet. Zooming in on the seller's last photo, it appears to be stamped C251. I've no idea which Seiko watch it may be the correct bracelet for, but I'd suspect it's something dating from the late 70's. For anyone who doesn't know what the correct Seiko p/n B1171C on a 7A38-7020 should look like ....

Regardless of being fitted with an incorrect replacement Seiko bracelet, that US eBay auction for a two-tone 7A38-7020 appears to have attracted a fair amount of attention. It sold in the early hours of this morning for $165.50 after 14 bids.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391808854309

This stainless 7A38-7270 listed yesterday evening by a Spanish eBay seller clearly is NOT all original as claimed. When I first clocked the bracelet, I thought it might be a Seiko p/n B1405S off a stainless 7A38-7190 (which would be ironic), but it's stamped with a p/n Z045. So your guess is as good as mine. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122548848434

Reloj de pulsera para caballero de la casa SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH VINTAGE QUARTZ 7A38-7270 TODO ORIGINAL

DIÁMETRO: 37,07mm


Funciona a la perfección y lo vendo tal como se ve en fotos y cualquier pregunta no dudes de preguntar antes de pujar no aceptó ningún voto negativo, por eso hay que preguntar Antes de pujar.Esto es todo y el pago mediante en Paypal o cuenta bancaria. Suerte en la puja.

For anyone who doesn't know by now what the correct Seiko p/n B1615S bracelet on a stainless 7A38-7270 looks like ....

Here's another stainless 7A38-7020 fitted with a non-original Seiko bracelet listed this lunchtime by a Spanish eBay seller.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222548095679

Reloj Seiko Vintage Modelo 7A38-7020 de los años 80.

- Caja y reloj con marcas.

- Cristal con muy ligeras marcas.

- Correa de acero Seiko original (No tiene todos los eslabones).

- CAJA NO INCLUIDA!!

The bracelet might be 'original Seiko', but it's not original to this watch. It looks like the 'old favourite' fall-back alternative Z1357S.

It also begs the question that if it isn't included in the sale, why the deceptive seller included the presentation box in all 8 photos.

Gives me a chance to re-cycle a photo of my recently acquired 7A38-7020 fitted with the correct original Seiko p/n B1171S bracelet.

I really shouldn't need to post another instance, warning of this non-original Seiko replacement bracelet. There are surely enough examples in this thread already (besides the one in my preceding post and another higher up the page). This 7A38-7029 was listed earlier today by a US eBay seller. You really don't need to study their photos too closely, to see that it's also fitted with that old favourite Seiko p/n Z1357S, instead of the correct p/n B1171S. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263119663965

Vintage Seiko Quartz sports 100 chronograph, comes with extra links, normal wear and tear from being a vintage watch.

TBH - it was the seller's comment about 'extra links' (for the wrong  bracelet) that prompted me to flag this one up. 

This 7A38-706A, listed yesterday evening by a Portuguese seller, seems to attracting a fair bit of attention, despite the over-ambitious 400 Euros Buy-it-Now asking price. It's fitted with an unidentified non-original replacement bracelet. I use the word 'fitted' in it's loosest possible sense.  Clearly not the original Seiko p/n G1105S bracelet - just some random thing. It looks like the end pieces may have filed in a failed attempt to achieve a better fit. Ignore the Seiko SQ clasp, that's a red herring. It's not even the right clasp for this model, which should be the longer 7-hole adjustment SQ clasp. Needless to say, there's no mention of the bracelet in the very brief description.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401381468289

Chrono

Seiko 7A38 Modell 706A

vintage chronograph

Case Steel

FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTION

What is that piece of junk bracelet off ? 

For comparison, here's an old wrist shot of my 7A38-706A fitted with the correct original Seiko p/n G1105S bracelet: